[kelseyfrog]

Right, and even withing social ontology/constructivism there are multitudes. Dismissing the entire subfield as vapid comes across as intellectually immature. If you have specific critiques feel free to share them but, "constructivism bad because Marxism bad," is about as thought-limiting cliché as one can get.

[LudwigNagasena]

> Right, and even withing social ontology/constructivism there are multitudes.

There are multitudes; and that’s exactly why such statements are vapid and contain no information. You failed to clarify what you meant and only managed to make a vague reference to Berger.

There are thousand contradictory ways to interpret what “a social construct” means (see The Social Construction of What? by Ian Hacking), but the most important thing about that statement is that it allows a sociologist to say “it’s something I am an authority on”.

> Dismissing the entire subfield as vapid comes across as intellectually immature.

Would dismissing astrology be intellectually immature? I don’t think so.

> "constructivism bad because Marxism bad," is about as thought-limiting cliché as one can get

Indeed. Good that it is not what I’ve said.

[kelseyfrog]

It sounds like you've read a critique of social construction without actually reading much about social construction itself.

Social construction is an lens of interpretation in the toolkit of critical thinking. I like to frame it as an epistemological question that simply asks, "How do you know that?" It's extremely powerful when used against topics where people make claims that are "obvious", "reality", "truth", or even "science".

Science itself is an epistomological framework and subject to interpretation from other (meta-)epistomological frameworks eg: scientific examination of social construction is just as valid a pursuit as the social construction of science. In fact that latter, the social construction of science, is the umbrella from which we can examine the concept of IQ. We can talk about it in terms of constitutiveness, grounding, expert-novice problems, &c.

>There are thousand contradictory ways to interpret what “a social construct” means (see The Social Construction of What? by Ian Hacking), but the most important thing about that statement is that it allows a sociologist to say “it’s something I am an authority on”.

You're describing science. Science "allows" people to say "it's something I am an authority on." This is because it's an epistomological framework independent of the validity of the subject. That's what epistomological frameworks do.

> Would dismissing astrology be intellectually immature? I don’t think so.

We can absolutely talk about the social construction of astrology independent of the truth claims of astrology. I'm sure you can agree with me that there is a profound difference between the two.

[LudwigNagasena]

> It's extremely powerful when used against topics where people make claims that are "obvious", "reality", "truth", or even "science".

It is an extremely powerful rhetorical device, yes. You can equivocate IQ with “the social construct of IQ” and make seemingly profound statements.

> In fact that latter, the social construction of science, is the umbrella from which we can examine the concept of IQ. We can talk about it in terms of constitutiveness, grounding, expert-novice problems, &c.

Scientists that study IQ can study how useful it is as a metric, whether it has predictive power, whether it is biased, how it relates to common notions of intelligence, how it correlates to other traits, whether it should be used for welfare means testing, etc. The framework of social constructivism cannot help much with that: the flow of knowledge mostly runs in the opposite direction.

> You're describing science.

No, I am describing why sociologists like to use that concept.

> Science "allows" people to say "it's something I am an authority on."

Lots of things allow people to claim authority on something. That’s not what makes science science.

> This is because it's an epistomological framework independent of the validity of the subject. That's what epistomological frameworks do.

> We can absolutely talk about the social construction of astrology independent of the truth claims of astrology. I'm sure you can agree with me that there is a profound difference between the two.

I totally agree. That’s why “IQ is a social construct” is a vapid meaningless statement. You can put anything instead of IQ and it will make as much sense.

[kelseyfrog]

You seem to be confused about the difference between labeling something as a social construct and analyzing it as a social construct. Can I ask how you were introduced to the concept?

[LudwigNagasena]

> You seem to be confused about the difference between labeling something as a social construct and analyzing it as a social construct.

I am not sure what that cryptic insinuation is supposed to accuse me of.

> Can I ask how you were introduced to the concept?

I don't remember? It was probably 10 years ago or more.