[iacvlvs]

In many police departments in the US the problem is essentially that there are so many bad apples that every good apple that comes is spoiled or cannot do good. This can only be changed be decisive action from the top.

How many bad apples does it take, to spoil the whole barrel?

I'm not disagreeing with the comment I'm replying to, just trying to challenge the perception that there's anything ok with "just" a few bad apples. The acceptable number of bad apples is zero.

[msm_]

> The acceptable number of bad apples is zero.

This is obviously idealistic and impossible in the real world (given the size of a police force). What is needed is a system that gets rid of bad apples with time, instead of letting them thrive and corrupting other apples.

[ilovetux]

The problem with getting rid of bad apples with time is the amount of damage even one bad police officer can do given half a chance, and even if they are punished for what they did it would not erase the bad things they have done. Policing violations are often violent and the effects long lasting.

[A4ET8a8uTh0]

Yes, but punishment sets the tone and people do not like being punished; especially if it goes on a record that follows them throughout their career.

[mrguyorama]

This is an industry where you can murder someone, get paid leave for it, eventually let go without losing retirement benefits, and then get hired the next county over.

WHAT PUNISHMENT?

[A4ET8a8uTh0]

<< and then get hired the next county over.

And that.. can probably be changed. Qualified immunity would be much harder.

[themitigating]

Does a negative record have the same impact as other jobs?

[tremon]

How many bad apples does it take, to spoil the whole barrel?

It doesn't just take apples, it takes time. If you remove the bad apple as soon as possible, the rest of the barrel can still be fresh and healthy. If you leave it to rot, you spoil the entire batch.

[stuaxo]

Yep - they always say it's a "few bad apples" but the original saying is "one bad apple can spoil the barrel".

[atoav]

What I meant by that is that any police department should be able to handle one officer that falls out of line. One person that has an impedance mismatch with the general culture of an organization should never be an issue. We all know that from our work places: one highly motivated guy won't change the lazy majority, one lazy guy won't change the highly motivated majority etc. If you have one such person in your organisation the rest of the organsation will either work around it, or try to contain/get rid of that person. This self-correction works only up to a certain fraction however.

Where that cutoff percentage is, depends on the single organisation and the individuals within it. But I believe that in this case it is a combination of police culture ("we always did it that way, we need to protect our own") and systemic incentives ("if we hide bad behaviour we look better than if we expose it") are the key to understanding this.

[kevviiinn]

They do handle cops that fall out of line, but falling out of line in this case means turning in bad cops. The good cops get pushed out and sometimes even murdered

[thfuran]

Nobody even knows the saying.

[josephcsible]

> The acceptable number of bad apples is zero.

Should we defund and abolish public schools since more than zero teachers are child molesters? Should we defund and abolish fire departments since more than zero firefighters are arsonists?

[kevviiinn]

The child molesting teachers don't band together and murder the other teachers who turn them in