[cdepman]

Wonderful. I recently rented a model 3 and found it incredibly frustrating that it required multiple touches to adjust settings that would be a single button press on a more traditional car. Don’t even get me started on the windshield wipers - a total nightmare in winter storms and located on the left stalk? These are safety concerns. As long as humans are operating these dangerous vehicles, I vote for fewer driver distractions.

[NotYourLawyer]

And navigating a software menu (which changes at random times when it updates itself) just to open the fucking glove compartment. What was wrong with a physical latch?

[judge2020]

It allows you to lock it with a pin. I don't want to carry keys.

[NotYourLawyer]

Fine, then have a lock that's accessible electronically. The usual case of just opening the glove compartment when it's not locked can still just be a physical latch.

[djha-skin]

There are so many good reasons to carry keys. Why carry a yubikey, or a license for that matter? Because good security is about what you have, not just what you know. It's about authentication.

In the spirit of the present article, mechanical locks (especially for anything car related) are better. You can't hack into them. If you force or break them, you are forced to leave physical evidence behind that you did so. Not so for a Bluetooth or WiFi hack. This is why I will not enable my smart garage door opener. I don't even have pay by phone, because they offer an attack vector via NFC directly to my bank account. I carry credit cards instead.

Sure, carrying all those pieces of metal is annoying. I got a KeySmart to help mitigate this. I carry my car key in my wallet with my cards. It's worth it, and there are ways around the costs.

[wongarsu]

Then put a physical button (with deep travel) on the glove compartment. If it isn't pin-protected it works exactly as a physical latch would, just with an extra redirection through some microcontroller. When you enable the pin lock, pressing the button opens the pin input on the screen.

[NotYourLawyer]

Please go work for Tesla, because the design you just came up with on the fly is 100x better than theirs.

[recursivequine]

That sounds awful. My hand has to travel to the glovebox, find a button, back to the touch screen, then back to the box. There's no eloquence.

I think the tesla glove box is easier for a driver to open than a manual one. Two rapid taps & it's waiting for you

[NotYourLawyer]

Most people leave the glove box unlocked most of the time. Tesla optimized for the rare case.

[afavour]

It’s entirely possible to do both.

[OOPMan]

Right, because the person that broke into your car is not going to just going to rip it open with a crowbar?

[registeredcorn]

Why not make it a lock that doesn't require electricity? For example: https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/combination-number-lock-meta...

[recursivequine]

Exactly, it's super useful & frictionless.

[rippercushions]

I almost didn't buy a Tesla because of my concerns over the lack of controls, but turns out that while driving, it's rarely if ever necessary to touch the screen, because there's voice commands for everything (navigate to X, climate control off, etc). Plus often you don't need to do anything at all: the lights switch on automatically if it's dark, the windshield wipers activate automatically if there's moisture, etc.

For me, the weirdest/most dangerous quirk is that the 'gears' (drive/reverse) are located on the right stalk, on several occasions I've toggled it in the wrong direction.

[altacc]

> there's voice commands for everything

Voice commands fail the universal design principle. I haven't tried Tesla's but I hate using voice commands and it's not an option for everyone. Not every language is supported and if you have a heavy accent or, like me, a speech impediment, even the industry leading software with training does not work most of the time. Pushing a button is quicker than speaking, especially if you have to say the same thing multiple times.

[pleb_nz]

A voice command takes longer to execute than a press or flick of a finger IMO.

It would be interesting to see what the cognitive loads are between a physical movement and a set of voice commands. I remember reading a study that found talking to another person in the vehicle was the equivalent to having had a certain amount of alcohol. I'm sure there's a difference between voice.commands and conversation, but interesting nome the less.

[HPsquared]

Voice commands are good because you can keep both your eyes and hands on the task of driving without interruption.

Having an actual conversation with someone is much more distracting because you need to listen to them, preserve social norms, etc.

[alistairSH]

Until the voice command fails and you have to resort to digging through a touchscreen UI.

For whatever reason, my wife's voice does not do well with voice control (despite being an American with an average American accent). And I have a slight Scottish accent (pronounce my Rs and /hw/) which, despite being mild (lived in the US for nearly 40 years) still causes trouble with voice control.

[eldaisfish]

Voice commands are terrible in general if:

- You do not have a generic north american english accent

- Are not speaking English and standard english.

- Have any sort of speech impediment

- Can’t remember what something is called or a specific command

- Want immediate feedback

Oh and they have a tendency to fail at random.

[buffington]

In my Model 3, voice commands work flawlessly for my wife.

For me, it never hears me. Doesn't matter if I talk loud or quite, fast or slow. I'm a native english speaker with no regional accent. Tesla also has no explanation.

Thing is, even if it worked for me, I'd still trade it for dedicated buttons. It borders on aggravating when my wife is driving to be mid conversation and have her suddenly yell out "wipers on".

[pleb_nz]

In theory yes, but it's never that simple is it.

I have no skin in the game personally though. I just thought it would be interesting to see the figures in comparison.

[saiya-jin]

Most of the world doesn't speak english as their primary language, and TBH I have yet to see a single person here in Europe (Swizerland) to command their phones using voices, or any other device (nests etc are extremely non-popular here, never saw it here and I work of english-speaking corporation).

I mean literally 0 times, this is very US-centric (and maybe UK/Australia/NZ) way of thinking. So US car working safely only via voice command? That means it isn't working for me.

TBH I would never ever want such a critical piece as car commanded by voice. We are 4, no way car will reliably grok everything for it 100% of the time and nothing else (that's the bar to compete with for buttons, not a nanometer lower).

[andrewfong]

YMMV I suppose but the "auto" options for climate + wipers do not work well for me.

Single droplet in the right spot => furious wiping. 100 droplets in the wrong spots => no wipe.

Climate - My preferred mode is to have the A/C on but not actually directed straight at me (so through the windshield vents), but auto also blasts through the front.

[mrobins]

Voice commands can be inconvenient and unnatural. In the middle of a conversation having to wait for someone to pause and then interrupt a conversation to interact with a vehicle is poor user experience. It goes against our natural ability to multitask. Also not great when you have sleeping passengers.

[rytis]

> voice commands for everything

how do they work in small spaces when there's active noise around (small children screaming for example)?

[smaudet]

They probably don't - it's what you get when a sociopath designs cars and doesn't think of anyone but himself.

[gambiting]

>>because there's voice commands for everything

Ah yes, the only other control method that manages to be worse than touchscreens. It works well if you speak absolutely perfect english, but for those of us for whom English isn't our first spoken language, you can kiss voice controls goodbye. Just a complete pile of trash, and incredibly frustrating when the car repeatedly misunderstands you.

[OOPMan]

You mean perfect American English right?

Voice control goofs with my South African accent all the time...

[quonn]

My only request would be an option to override the auto wipers (even on autopilot) and without the touchscreen. This could be done effectively by adding a double press action and auditive feedback to the left stalk button.

[vegardx]

The automatic windshield wipers in Teslas is a joke. They're so bad that I'm having trouble even formulating how bad it is, you really have to experience it. They've clearly not been very well tested in areas places where it rains so often, and in so many different ways, that we have dozens of different words just to describe what it.

1. It will take multiple seconds to react even if the entire windshield is completely covered in water. Like zero visibility. I've had this happen on multiple occasions where water from the opposite direction is splashed over on my car. To manually start them I have to first toggle it with my left arm on the left stalk, then set it to full speed with my right arm on a touch screen. All while at high speeds and trying to perform an emergency stop / regain control. The manual toggle on the right stalk wipes one time, in the slowest speed. You also have to wait for this to finish before it will actually adjust the speed you selected on the touch screen.

2. When they're in automatic mode and I enter a tunnel they will turn off, which is good, but you'd imagine that Tesla with all these supposed self-driving capabilities were able to deduce that it will most likely be raining at the other side of the tunnel, and be prepared to turn them on quickly. They don't.

3. When I manually toggle a single wipe it seems to reset whatever algorithm they use to decide if the cameras are detecting that it's actually raining. I can't really see any reasonable scenario where I'm not also using windshield wiper fluids that this makes any sense.

4. It will randomly just start in glaring sunlight, often at maximum speed. To add insult to injury, if you're in a country that uses a lot of salt on the roads during winter it will then coat your entire windshield in it, causing it to speed up, making it progressively worse, until you can do the "toggle dance" with both your hands to disable it.

Recently Tesla decided that you can't turn off things like automatic windshield wipers and high beams when you want to use adaptive cruise control or similar features. I understand that it has to be able to detect cars in front of it, but I don't understand the rationale of forcing these features to be on automatic. Just let the drivers know they have to turn this on in situations where the car isn't confident it has enough light or visibility to do it.

They recently fixed some of the issues with high beams. You don't go around blinding everyone like you did previously all the time. But it will also just randomly turn off because it sees a sign or a parked car, or take 4-5 seconds to turn back on again. Making them practically useless. In scenarios where I have to use high beams it's often critical that they turn right back on after passing ongoing traffic. If I have them in automatic mode you can't toggle it back on again. You have to wait for it to figure it out. The type of headlights that Tesla now uses, often referred to as "matrix lights", are capable of selectively turning blinding off parts of the light beam, but for some reason they don't use this capability for anything other than making them write "Tesla" on walls in front of the car if you perform the "light show".

I bought a aftermarket product[0] that connects to the ODB-port that lets me overrides these things. And it lets me put programmable physical buttons to do things like toggle windshield wipers in the car. The concept of having user programmable buttons in the car is something I really like, and I think this is a concept that should be explored much more. All the buttons in a car should be programmable. There's more[1] and more aftermarket upgrades to Tesla's that adds capability like this, but everything is living on the whim of a guy who'll just terminate people's API access on Twitter, so there's that. The weird thing is, besides the windshield wipers, automatic high beams and some of the questionable choices Tesla has made, like removing ultra sonic sensors, I really love the car.

[0] https://enhauto.com/product/six-s3xy-buttons [1] https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ctrl-bar--4#/

[redindian75]

model 3 has voice control "turn on wipers" "set AC to 68" "drive home" - at the press of a button, the music fades and it listens like "hey Siri"

[biofox]

That sounds like a poor solution to a problem of their own making

[piyh]

At least it's hands free unlike the pile of shit that is Subaru Outback's infotainment. Takes upwards of 20 seconds to change any settings after the car turns on because it lags so bad.

[Loughla]

Jesus Fuck is the Subaru infotainment system just an absolute nightmare. I love Subaru cars. I have owned several.

My most recent (23 Impreza) was the first with full-blownsies infotainment. It is just an absolute shitshow.

Slow, laggy, buggy, hard to understand menus. It randomly turns black and takes a minute or two to turn back on when starting driving. If you get in turn the car on, and put it into a gear without waiting for 20-30 seconds, the screen and therefore radio will be completely unusable for anywhere from 30 seconds up to five minutes afterwards.

It is just awful. Awful.

[dybber]

It will probably make production costs cheaper in the long run to avoid as many buttons as possible, unless legislation forbids it due to safety concerns. I’m on team Hyundai in this case, but if you want to produce the cheapest possible car, you will have to reduce the amount of components that needs to be installed.

[saagarjha]

Teslas aren’t particularly cheap, of course.

[piva00]

They do look cheap once you step inside.

[colordrops]

As an owner it works great. Windshield wipers have a sensor for automatic control, and if you want to manually adjust, voice recognition is highly accurate these days. I switch between my Prius and Tesla all the time as my wife shares the vehicles, and I much prefer the Tesla controls. But I'll get off of your lawn if you'd like.

[cyberax]

I'm usually listening to audiobooks. Right now Tesla doesn't support any audiobook reader, so voice commands momentarily mute the book without pausing.

Next issue is the quality of voice recognition. It just sucks.

Oh, and wipers are a pure fucking BS in Teslas. They removed a $5 infrared precipitation sensor, and it STILL doesn't work well.

[davchana]

I don't own Tesla, I have a strong Punjabi Accent when i speak English. Many bigger companies phone trees based on voice "commands" are useless for me. It never understands me. My Ford Sync voice controls too struggle to understand me. I prefer buttons.

[selimthegrim]

Like Zail Singh with Reagan, you will just have to teach it Punjabi :)

[wlesieutre]

Anecdotally the owner I’ve asked about it said it sucks. And he’s a native English speaker. How’s it do with accents?

Maybe it’s been improved with hardware upgrades? His is around a 2017 I think.

[orthoxerox]

I imagine it works as well as the famous voice-activated elevator in Scotland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMS2VnDveP8

[judge2020]

An update came out around November of last year that vastly improved auto high-beams, and somewhat improved automatic windshield wiper performance.

[wlesieutre]

I mean the voice control features specifically. Didn’t hear anything about the auto high beams and wipers which could imply they worked better than the voice recognition.

[gbin]

To me, this is definitely a major safety hazard to rely on voice command. If you just get splashed and in a stressed out voice you ask for wipers and your car might not understand you.

[millzlane]

It would def draw a pause if I were driving a Turo rental. It's great to have the option of voice. But I can actuate the wipers much quicker with a hand stalk than I can speak it.

[lukas099]

Absolutely. Not to mention the needless inaccessibility.

[doctor_eval]

actually the wipers have a physical one-shot button on the stalk.

[illumin8]

Yeah, hilarious how people are complaining about wipers when they literally have a 1-shot button on the stalk to trigger a quick blast at any time. Hold down for 2 seconds to get wiper fluid/de-icer. Seems like Tesla actually has the safety feature you want.

[vegardx]

This will trigger it to run once, in the slowest setting. And then you have to wait for this to finish before it updates to the speed you've set on the touchscreen. Tesla could have also solved this by just letting the user decide if it should be a single wipe or toggle a certain setting.

Being able to toggle a single wipe, with or without wiper fluids is also something every single car I've ever operated has had. In addition to be able to control it from the stalk.

Not everything has to be reinvented. They walked back a little on the steering yoke, but for some reason they still remove the stalks and have touch buttons on the steering wheel. The one thing that everyone with the yoke categorically hated.

[nixass]

Seems like Tesla has a lot of solutions to problems people never had in the past until Tesla came around

[judge2020]

The way to do it is to press the wiper button (press in on the stalk button) to swipe one and then it gives you options for manual wiper speed selection via an on-screen control.

[Stratoscope]

So I use a touchscreen to adjust the wiper speed and delay? In the worst kind of weather where I really need it?

Sign me up!

This is a huge improvement over my 2008 Kia where I twist the stalk and don't have to look at it and I can keep my eyes on the road.

OTOH, my old Kia doesn't have Full Self Driving. Ah well.

[nixass]

> my old Kia doesn't have Full Self Driving

Don't worry, neither does Tesla :)

[serpix]

in every other car on the planet it is the right stalk down. They had to go and reinvent this.

[Loughla]

I am absolutely not defending Tesla at all, and do genuinely believe they do things that are incredibly stupid in auto design.

But - at one point, when the shift was the right stalk, wipers were controlled via a switch, knob, or other mechanism either on the dashboard or on the left stalk.

So. It's not like changes haven't happened before.

[EricE]

They were still physical controls that offered tactile feedback and never moved so you could always operate them blindly.

Also my parents are older and something in their skin makes them routinely almost invisible to capacitive touch controls - heck I still have trouble from time to time getting displays to register reliably.

I loathe touch controls and will never buy a vehicle that only has touch controls. Luckily all my current cars are in excellent condition and I pamper the crap out of them. If I'm lucky I'll be able to be buried in them :p

[marlor]

I can’t even get Siri to reliably play a song or skip a track, let alone anything useful. Must be my accent.

I’d hate to try to operate vehicle controls with the same hit-and-miss interface. Give me tactile controls any time.

[cdepman]

It was doing its best on automatic but the wipers were sporadic at best. This was a major winter storm and visibility was awful …the model 3 had no idea where the lane lines were and apparently no idea how bad the precipitation was.

[zxexz]

I think I’m just going to keep buying and driving 15 year old cars until the new cars are an order of magnitude better. I can buy 10 half decent 15 year old cars for the price of new Tesla!

(15 years old is the magic number in MA where the car no longer has to pass emissions checks during inspection)

[smaudet]

Plus, you can probably fix them yourself! None of this "hack it yourself and void the warranty, or pay a goon to hookup a computer to your car to 'fix' it."

I wonder how long it will take for people to start selling jailbroken cars...

[dymk]

The voice control is shit

[lukas099]

> the music fades

Disgusting.

[8n4vidtmkvmk]

Love when the music fades for like 5 seconds to play a 250ms chime.

[gambiting]

Cool, and if you have a strong accent then what?

[wildzzz]

Wipers on the left stalk is entirely normal for cars that have column shifters since those are always on the right. There's plenty of new trucks using column shifters, mostly on those with bench front seats. I'd honestly prefer a column shifter (and therefore wipers on the left side) if it gives me more real estate on the center console. New automatic shifters are sometimes entirely electronic so there's no constraints on where it can go. Having a center console electronic shifter is a skeuomorphic design. Wasting space on something you touch a few times every trip and only when completely stopped seems unnecessary.

[davchana]

Is (among other things) having windshield wipers control on left stalk being a dangerous thing? That cars I had in other countries (with opposite side driving) had signals on right & wipers on left stalk.

[alistairSH]

Probably not. You'd figure it out pretty quickly the first time you need to go around a corner or change lanes.

FWIW, ever car I've ever owned or driven in the US has left stalk for turn signals and right stalk for wipers. Headlights are often on the left stalk as well, but sometimes a physical on the dash (usually to the left of steering wheel).

Regardless, I have a strong dislike of touchscreen UIs in cars. Fine for the main radio, as long as I have physical controls on the steering wheel. But for open the globe box, or adjust the seat, or changing the wiper speed? GTFO, that's asinine.

[tom_]

The cars I've driven in the UK have varied. The only ones I remember for certain are Nissan Micra (indicators on the right) and BMW 3 series (indicators on the left), and the others have varied. My fingers only seem to know which is which when the car is driving, and I still sometimes hit the wrong stalk if the car is stationary.

Compared to putting the steering wheel on the wrong side it seems like a minor point.

[andylynch]

Not really - just mildly embarrassing, like spilling your coffee when opening a door. Where I come from imported cars vary left or right stalk. So it’s common to see people accidentally washing windows especially in rentals. No great harm and mostly amusement value since it’s very obvious to everyone, everybody’s done it, and nine times out of time they just try again the other way and get it right after that.

[8n4vidtmkvmk]

At least you only rented it. I've never driven a Tesla but I don't have to to know that would be horrible.

[speedgoose]

You better not drive one because you may be surprised.

[8n4vidtmkvmk]

Surprised good or surprised bad? It's probably fun to drive but the screen I'm not interested in.

[speedgoose]

The screen is surprisingly good. I feel like a lot of the comments there are a bit like when smartphones changed from buttons blackberry style to touchscreens iPhone style. For sure buttons are better for some use cases but a touchscreen is nice too. It’s okay that you have to press the touchscreen to configure the automatic AC. It’s not something you do often anyway. However you may use the navigation or the media player more often. The model 3/y also has nice buttons on the wheel anyway, not some cheap touch buttons. With the exception of the wipers speed selector. They fucked up on this.

[EricE]

Physical buttons on the blackberry were far superior - except for the space they took. So a touchscreen on something that has a physical constraint is a reasonable trade off.

There are ZERO constraints preventing them from still including physical buttons except for impractical hipster design philosophies. Want to have touch screen in addition to physical buttons? Knock yourself out. But I will never buy a car with pure touchscreen controls.