[shagymoe]

The emperor has no clothes.

How many crises do we have to go through before we admit the fed and banks either have no idea what they are doing or they know exactly what they're doing and it's malevolent?

The number of people here defending the system and saying this isn't inflation is mind boggling. Where do you think the money comes from when the government rescues banks? No matter how you slice it, the taxpayer pays through higher fees, higher rates or inflation.

This system of rescuing banks with no prosecution of the people responsible and printing a mountain of money is unsustainable. It's clear that humans will never implement an equitable system and it makes the case for Bitcoin every day...unless you profit from the financial system and then I'm sure you'd be thrilled to kick the can down the road.

[erlich]

Everyone in charge are already extremely wealthy. They have zero skin in the game. J. Powell, 50MM. Yellen, 20MM. There is no ability for them to empathize with a regular taxpayer. Whatever happens their lifestyle will not be impacted one bit.

You have to ask: what drives someone in this position.

And this is a question that only the 200k ultra high net individuals (30mm+) in the world can answer.

I think people stop chasing material possessions and start chasing prestige and power. These people don’t interact with the average joe much so they don’t really care about their opinion, unless you are a populist like Trump for eg. They care about their family friends and peers. So I think it creates a broey kind of culture where you want your peers to be happy with the job you are doing. If you are in finance you want the bankers to be happy. Your political party to be happy etc.

I think it becomes more about making and keeping friends. This stage for life without need for material possessions is all about people and relationships and power.

You just have to imagine yourself with infinite wealth but no friends. You would quickly run out of things to spend it on, and you would just want people to love and respect you.

[shagymoe]

All good points. Let's remove the power to control money from these people.

[nebula8804]

Great idea! As someone who spent time volunteering for Bernie Sanders campaign, I'll wait here while you go do that: Good luck!

[shagymoe]

I was right there with you. We're collectively too stupid or too easily manipulated to enact the change we need.

[andrei_says_]

We’re manipulated yes but it’s not that easy. The propaganda machine is big, incessant and expensive. Saying this not so much as a consolation but as a reminder to take the manipulation very seriously.

Millions of us think in sound bites provided by propaganda.

Our universities teach flawed unsustainable economic theory as reality.

Our politicians are at the forefront of the science of dividing voters into two equal parts attacking each other and voting on non-essential issues.

Please see the work of George Lakoff on framing - it is crucial.

[vipvipv]

THis is true, for a lot - not All, of us :)

I've been part of campaigns where the leader actually had the brains to act right. Power, sometimes, can be tricky to handle. BUt NOtfor ALL.

There are times, when those in power, acting with not so complete picture of this situation - or the information, are prone to look stupid with hindsight. NOT the case with all, but a minority of leaders!

[nebula8804]

Gen-Z are absolute rockstars. I like to think that part of the surprise win for Dems in 2022 was boomers passing away (possibly accelerated due to anti-vax COVID deaths) and Gen-Z really coming out in the hopes of some sort of college loan relief.

Hopefully down the road the millennials and gen-z become a large enough collective that they finally push out the garbage...although the establishment wont go down without a massive fight.

[lr1970]

> Gen-Z really coming out in the hopes of some sort of college loan relief.

Do Gen-Z have enough brains to understand that any sensible college loan relief must be accompanied by stringent control how colleges raise tuition? As it stands now loan relief is an invitation to the universities to keep raising tuition without limits.

[bacchusracine]

>As someone who spent time volunteering for Bernie Sanders campaign

How do you feel about his three houses?

The truth is people with the money don't want to change things and those with the power stop caring as much once they too get more.

[nebula8804]

Lets take a look at these three homes.

1. 221 Van Patten Parkway, Burlington Vermont: purchased for ? in 1981 currently valued ~$405k

2. 311 4th St NE, Washington, D.C.: purchased for ~$490k in 07 valued at ~$736k

3. 310 Stone Gate Lane, North Hero, Vermont: purchased for ~575k in 2016

I'd like to think that a senator that is 81 years old could have done much better given this is the bulk of his worth. In fact many developers here working for FAANG will probably exceed how he turned out if they haven't already.

[reducesuffering]

All US senators and reps should have a residence in their home territory and DC (they need to understand their constituents' area and they need to be in DC a lot). Bernie's is a 1 bedroom in DC, so those two are a given imo and nothing to be concerned about. His third is a $575k rural lake house; probably a country retreat from being in the cities of Burlington and DC all the time. So while getting a little extravagant for the average American, it's certainly not very unusual for many people in the US to have a modest rural retreat "cabin." I've seen many blue collar families in that circumstance, even in California. And I say this as someone who wouldn't vote for Bernie.

[frumper]

I don't have an issue with his rural retreat, but calling Burlington a city isn't exactly conveying how quaint of a town it really is. It feels like a town I'd visit when I want to get out of my also not big city.

[ManlyBread]

Good idea, what's your plan?

[AnimalMuppet]

> How many crises do we have to go through before we admit the fed and banks either have no idea what they are doing or they know exactly what they're doing and it's malevolent?

False dichotomy. The Fed can have good intentions, and a good-but-not-perfect idea what they're doing, and things can be working out, not perfectly, but better than they would in the absence of the Fed.

Is there any evidence for that? Yeah, look at the world before the Fed. Look at the "Panic/Depression of 18xx". There's several to choose from. They're 2008-or-worse events, over and over and over.

The economy is a really complicated system, with lots of humans (and their emotions!) as part of the system. It's really hard to tune it perfectly. That doesn't mean that the Fed is either malicious or incompetent.

[sheepybloke]

Exactly. Economics likes to pretend it is a hard science because it has mathematics and formulas and hard numbers, but it's not. It is much closer with a social science, where work has either big assumptions or is much closer to a study about the market's behavior. But because economics has masqueraded as a science, we expect it to be more exact than it really is, and I think that dissonance can be quite impactful to how we see the fed as it tries to make decisions at times like this.

[Teever]

Please.

One look at Norway tells me this is malarky.

If Norway can have such a stable economy and society, why can't the rest of the world?

What have they figured out that has eluded everyone else?

[3dbrows]

Sitting atop the world’s largest sovereign wealth fund, accumulated over decades of judicious management of national oil wealth, perhaps insulates Norway from realities that apply elsewhere.

[Teever]

What does standard of living look like in Norway? What about wealth inequality?

[reducesuffering]

Now do Sweden

[2000UltraDeluxe]

As much as the rest of the Nordics hate to admit it, Norway's economy is far more stable than those of their neighbours, including the Swedish one.

[3dbrows]

I’m no expert, but I wonder what the long-term socioeconomic effects are of Sweden not having been involved in major wars or colonial empires for hundreds of years.

[sheepybloke]

I think 3dbrow's answer is the correct response, but would also like to say is that economics is much larger than just monetary and fiscal policies at a state level. This is one of the reasons that behavioral economics has flourished in recent years, to help push back against some of the underlying assumptions that don't match human nature.

It also looks like Norway's economy is also having some trouble during this time [0], like many other nations. And finally, we need to be careful comparing specific economies like Norway to other nation's economies. Each country's economy is different, and prescribing something that works in an oil-rich, northern European country will probably not work in other parts of the world.

[0]: https://www.ssb.no/en/nasjonalregnskap-og-konjunkturer/konju...

Interesting podcast about copying Nordic countries to make ourselves happier: https://freakonomics.com/podcast/season-10-episode-25/

[woobar]

Should we also look at Qatar or UAE?

[dragonwriter]

> How many crises do we have to go through before we admit the fed and banks either have no idea what they are doing or they know exactly what they're doing and it's malevolent?

Considering how bad things were before the Fed, quite a lot before there is support for the idea that it isn’t making things better.

[nwah1]

Bitcoin regularly dives by orders of magnitude worse than the 2008 financial crisis.

Angsty posting like this probably sounded really cool to people in high school, but I'm not sure why we should be impressed with your fact-free faux-radical grifterism.

[shagymoe]

The value of Bitcoin would not fluctuate wildly if it were the default currency. You're not even attempting to argue in good faith or imagine how things could be different.

What you call "angsty" is what I call "rational". I see you're happy to continue experiencing these crises which are, in fact, happening.

Also, I don't think you know what grifterism means, if that's even a word.

[jeezfrk]

magical thinking about very un-tethered and highly manipulated currency is not a help.

imagining it will change for an entire economy ... is quite irrational.

no magic will make a constantly shifting ice floe into boring bedrock.

[shagymoe]

The current system is more irrational, unless you're benefiting from the corrupt system. Bitcoin is democratic and you vote with a node.

[roarcher]

Yes, and its voters vote for their own profits, which makes it swing wildly. Being "democratic" doesn't make something immune to greed.

[shagymoe]

It's clear you don't understand how nodes or "voting" works. There's no mechanism there which would induce wild swings.

[latchkey]

HN can't think past price goes up/down and see that a lot of crypto is a valuable resource that you can use as collateral and borrow against it without having to go to a bank and beg for permission.

[philipwhiuk]

You still need permission from the person/company on the other side to use crypto as collateral.

[latchkey]

Maybe I'm not explaining myself correctly.

I can take crypto (and I'm talking about BTC/ETH, but can be others) and lend it out (generally for a positive APY). I can then borrow (typically USD*, but can be many other tokens) against that collateral (sometimes even for a positive APY!).

No permission needed and happens in the scope of transactions that cost pennies.

This is a massively important aspect of finance that goes beyond daily price swings. It is a relatively new aspect in crypto that has only been around for the last ~3 years or so.

Example: https://aave.com/ ($8.2b locked up right now)

[red-iron-pine]

And there have been a lot of painful lessons lately as to why that's a bad idea.

[csomar]

> The value of Bitcoin would not fluctuate wildly if it were the default currency.

I wouldn't think so. Many of our "crisis" are due to the value of "cash" or liquidity to fluctuate significantly. This is the case in the recent banking crisis. In the case of Bitcoin, this will be a deep dive in price. Now which one is better? I don't know.