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by nebula8804 1181 days ago
Great idea! As someone who spent time volunteering for Bernie Sanders campaign, I'll wait here while you go do that: Good luck!
2 comments

I was right there with you. We're collectively too stupid or too easily manipulated to enact the change we need.
We’re manipulated yes but it’s not that easy. The propaganda machine is big, incessant and expensive. Saying this not so much as a consolation but as a reminder to take the manipulation very seriously.

Millions of us think in sound bites provided by propaganda.

Our universities teach flawed unsustainable economic theory as reality.

Our politicians are at the forefront of the science of dividing voters into two equal parts attacking each other and voting on non-essential issues.

Please see the work of George Lakoff on framing - it is crucial.

THis is true, for a lot - not All, of us :)

I've been part of campaigns where the leader actually had the brains to act right. Power, sometimes, can be tricky to handle. BUt NOtfor ALL.

There are times, when those in power, acting with not so complete picture of this situation - or the information, are prone to look stupid with hindsight. NOT the case with all, but a minority of leaders!

Gen-Z are absolute rockstars. I like to think that part of the surprise win for Dems in 2022 was boomers passing away (possibly accelerated due to anti-vax COVID deaths) and Gen-Z really coming out in the hopes of some sort of college loan relief.

Hopefully down the road the millennials and gen-z become a large enough collective that they finally push out the garbage...although the establishment wont go down without a massive fight.

> Gen-Z really coming out in the hopes of some sort of college loan relief.

Do Gen-Z have enough brains to understand that any sensible college loan relief must be accompanied by stringent control how colleges raise tuition? As it stands now loan relief is an invitation to the universities to keep raising tuition without limits.

And the big wildcard for me will be the currently unanswered question of how easy will it be to use new technologies like ChatGPT, various image and voice generation tools/models, to create content that manipulates them directly or indirectly towards or away from things as desired by the current (and future) powerful and wealthy people who don’t want to lose their power or wealth.

Humans being social animals makes me worried that its going to be a fighting retreat by those aware of the manipulation against these technologies being used to manipulate.

I don't think new technologies change anything in this regard. Democracy has always been fundamentally a contest between powerful factions shaping the public opinion to their liking. Does not matter whether it's done through pamphlets, tabloids, radio, TV, internet, or generative AI.
I completely agree, the question isn’t so much about complete immunity to such technological manipulation since that’s been an ongoing theme of history, but more a matter of if the current trend of awareness and resistance (be it conscious or unconscious resistance) to such manipulation, which undeniably functions as a component of the younger generation’s rejection of classical narratives with respect to the normative trajectory of adulthood… a large part of this is obviously social dynamics robbing them of the ability to have these things, but when you look at the people who are bathed in the propaganda and drink the cool aid and spend all their time desperately trying to hustle their way towards the ludicrously difficult traditional goals of a house in the suburbs with a backyard, big enough for the 2.5 kids to run around in, with a two car garage so the wife can go shopping while the husband is at work… and somehow they fucking afford this on a single income because that’s still something people pretend can happen.

The point being… it’s not a given that the current rejection/resistance to the normative cultural pressures will remain strong enough to prevent these younger generations from slowly bending towards conservatism the way the previous three/four generations have. And I was just highlighting the fact that we can’t yet tell if the component of this drive towards conservatism that’s powered by technological manipulation by the powerful (newspapers, then radio, then television, then cable tv (in America), then the internet, now social media) will continue to be ineffective of these people or if they will slowly be sway over time.

>As someone who spent time volunteering for Bernie Sanders campaign

How do you feel about his three houses?

The truth is people with the money don't want to change things and those with the power stop caring as much once they too get more.

Lets take a look at these three homes.

1. 221 Van Patten Parkway, Burlington Vermont: purchased for ? in 1981 currently valued ~$405k

2. 311 4th St NE, Washington, D.C.: purchased for ~$490k in 07 valued at ~$736k

3. 310 Stone Gate Lane, North Hero, Vermont: purchased for ~575k in 2016

I'd like to think that a senator that is 81 years old could have done much better given this is the bulk of his worth. In fact many developers here working for FAANG will probably exceed how he turned out if they haven't already.

All US senators and reps should have a residence in their home territory and DC (they need to understand their constituents' area and they need to be in DC a lot). Bernie's is a 1 bedroom in DC, so those two are a given imo and nothing to be concerned about. His third is a $575k rural lake house; probably a country retreat from being in the cities of Burlington and DC all the time. So while getting a little extravagant for the average American, it's certainly not very unusual for many people in the US to have a modest rural retreat "cabin." I've seen many blue collar families in that circumstance, even in California. And I say this as someone who wouldn't vote for Bernie.
I don't have an issue with his rural retreat, but calling Burlington a city isn't exactly conveying how quaint of a town it really is. It feels like a town I'd visit when I want to get out of my also not big city.