[zimpenfish]

> "[whatabout cyclists who break the law]"

I can stand at my local crossing on Old Kent Road and there'll be non-zero cars jumping the red light (often accelerating from a good ways back) or entering the junction without a safe exit blocking the crossing, a bus lane, and another junction (in peak time this will often get into double figures). Multiply that by all the crossings and you'll absolutely dwarf the amount of cyclists doing similar (and in my 20+yrs experience as a pedestrian + cyclist in London, it's not nearly as bad as motor vehicles.)

> It needs to become socially unacceptable to cycle without due care and attention to the safety of others

Let's start with the heavy motor vehicles first, eh.

[aisengard]

Or, you know, we can do both at the same time?

Also, once police are no longer occupied ticketing motorists, I hope cyclists are prepared for actually being held accountable to laws. The police budget isn't going to refill itself.

[zimpenfish]

> Or, you know, we can do both at the same time?

Or maybe we prioritise the class of vehicles responsible for almost 5 fatalities and 75 serious injuries a day[1]?

For comparison, [2] says that 30 pedestrians were killed and 1093 serious injuries involved cyclists in eight (8) years. In 416 weeks, that's less than one (1) week of car deaths (0.2% ratio) and two (2) weeks of serious injuries (0.4% ratio).

Anyone that says "we should prioritise X and 416*X the same" is either not arguing in good faith or should be nowhere near decision making.

[1] https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casua... - 1760 fatalities, 28044 serious injuries.

[2] https://www.nationalworld.com/news/politics/pedestrians-kill...

[pharmakom]

> I hope cyclists are prepared for actually being held accountable to laws

What percentage of cyclist do you think are breaking the law?

> The police budget isn't going to refill itself.

Ticketing is not the main source of revenue for policing (thank goodness)

[vuln]

> Let's start with the heavy motor vehicles

So SUVs, Trucks and Electric Vehicles?

[bartread]

> > "[whatabout cyclists who break the law]"

Your attempt to classify my post as whataboutism is in incredibly poor faith.

I'm very pro-cycling, but it would be foolish to ignore the very real and observable safety concerns that occur because of factors such as poor behaviour (and also, although I didn't mention them originally, issues like infrastructure and quality of road surfaces).

You cannot simply assume that within a particular context or location that more peope cycling equates to greater safety. There are too many other factors at play, and those need to be addressed in order to ensure that cycling is a safer option for everybody.

[iso1631]

> I'm very pro-cycling, but it would be foolish to ignore the very real and observable safety concerns that occur because of factors such as poor behaviour

You'll no doubt be able to point to the statistics that back up these very real safety concerns.

You could start with the number of KSI caused by cyclists compared with motor vehicles

[zimpenfish]

> You could start with the number of KSI caused by cyclists compared with motor vehicles

Cyclist involved KSIs, 2013-2020: 1123 (30 + 1093)

All road KSIs, 2020: 24989 (1460 + 23529) (and this was a quieter than normal year on the roads)

I make that a factor of 8 * (24989 / 1123) or 178x difference.