[sebastianconcpt]

    a good debugger supports different kinds of breakpoints, offers rich data visualization capabilities, has a REPL for executing expressions, can show the dependencies between threads and control their execution, can pick up changes in the source code and apply them without restarting the program, can step through the code backward and rewind the program state to any point in history, and can even record the entire program execution and visualize control flow and data flow history.    
    I should mention that the perfect debugger doesn’t exist.

People pretends Smalltalk doesn't exist?

[shadowofneptune]

Smalltalk images offered introspection, debugging of running processes, etc., but some of the later features listed seem quite impractical to add to the language. "Record the entire program execution," for instance.

That's more or less the point the author makes on the next line: "Different tools support different features and have different limitations." The ideal debugger does not necessarily make for the most ideal programming environment, just as a plane made out of steel is great for structural stability but may not be a good plane.

[draegtun]

>> People pretends Smalltalk doesn't exist?

And Factor and many implementations of Lisp too!

[nijave]

>can step through the code backward and rewind the program state to any point in history

This seems impossible for anything that modifies external state.

Say 1. Open database connection 2. Commit data 3. Close database connection

How would you rewind right before #2 if you've already completed step #3? You'd need the socket/connection you already closed

Unless that means something more like "keep a running record of program state over time"

[cmontella]

It can work but it depends on the system. One field in which it's very useful is game development. I'm working on a language that has time travel debugging as a feature, so you can rewind a game back to a previous state. I've found it useful when there's a momentary bug that would be hard to recreate. With time traveling, you pause, rewind, inspect state, fix the bug in situ, then resume from that point to check that the behavior is correct.

Here's an example: http://docs.mech-lang.org/#/examples/bouncing-balls.mec

If you want these kinds of features in other systems, they'll have to be architected to support them. For example, the external database will have to be rewound as well. If it doesn't support that feature, then cool language-level debugging features won't be as useful.

[Ao7bei3s]

Have a look at https://rr-project.org/ (features and motivation are on that page). (Also mentioned in the article.)

It works on recorded state. It's not about executing a program again, it's about root causing a failure by going back in time after the failure happened. You can do things like start with a crash, retroactively set a break point and reverse run back in time until you hit it.

It's for real world applications. It was written specifically to debug Firefox, and has since been used for other applications of similar size.

It's basically GDB with extra commands, so very easy to use and learn if you know GDB. Highly recommend.

[jcranmer]

Time travel debugging generally works on record-and-replay, with there being a lot of research into figuring out what you need to record to get deterministic replay. Recording the results of system calls is a necessary step [1] to get deterministic replay, and that lets you replay even things that rely on modifying external state like database connections.

[1] Necessary, but not sufficient. Multithreaded applications require a lot more care, and rr relies on very accurate hardware counters to get multithreaded executions working correctly (and not all hardware supports these hardware counters!).

[yencabulator]

Let's say out loud the part that too often goes unstated:

You can rewind & replay a fixed execution of the program.

All the external interactions are recorded, and the replay can only literally replay what already happened.

You cannot change a variable or edit the code and branch off into a different execution path, that talks to the outside world differently; the rest of the world did not get rewound with the program.

[mark_undoio]

> Say 1. Open database connection 2. Commit data 3. Close database connection > > How would you rewind right before #2 if you've already completed step #3? You'd need the socket/connection you already closed

The key thing is that you're really rewinding the world, as visible by the program

The program doesn't actually know what the network transaction with the database was, it just knows what syscalls it made and what results they returned. If, whenever it gets to talking with the database, you provide the same result as last time then it can't tell the database is gone.

This is self-supporting: if you do this consistently with external sources of information then the program will never go down any new code paths, guaranteeing that you'll always have a ready answer recorded when it needs it.

[matsemann]

Yeah it's not perfect, but it often works well enough. Just another benefit of isolating code into stateless stuff.

One use case I have is for instance debugging a bug that's hard to trigger. When it finally happens and my breakpoint is hit, I can edit the code, hot swap it live, drop the current frame and then make it call my updated function again as if the original call never happened.

[crabbone]

My guess is that you could attempt something like this by recording system calls as your program executes and then replay them in whichever order you need.

You would need a lot of storage space for some programs, but in simple cases that might still be useful.

So, in your example, playing the program back wouldn't really try to read from a closed socket, it would just hit debugger's database of stored system calls at a particular point and retrieve the stored response from that call.

This could get weird though if the program modifies itself as it executes. Not sure what to do in such case, but maybe there's a way to deal with it in special cases, not in general...

[greglaw99]

http://undo.io and http://rr-project.org both support self-modifying code.

I am a co-founder of undo.io, many of our customers do this.

It's not as bad as it first sounds because the replay of the program will modify itself deterministically. (Though as always with this stuff, there are some gotchas.)

[layer8]

Only the program state gets rewound, not anything external to the process (or whatever is hosting the program). Just like hitting a breakpoint only pauses the program, not the external world.

[fluoridation]

Yes, that's what it means. Ideally you'd record the state of memory and CPU after each instruction. In practice you can take snapshots at regular intervals and hook system functions to record their inputs and outputs. If a call has to be replayed the debugger intercepts it and gives the debuggee a recorded result.

[greglaw99]

Exactly. Except there are sources of non-determinism other than syscalls. Namely asynchronous signals, thread ordering, shared memory and non-deterministic instructions. They can all be dealt with though.

[aidenn0]

Is there a ST implementation with a time-traveling debugger? That's probably the one feature I miss when using sbcl/slime.

[igouy]

Depends what functionality you think "a time-traveling debugger" must provide, Smalltalk implementations usually provide something like this:

https://cuis-smalltalk.github.io/TheCuisBook/The-Debugger.ht...

[aidenn0]

To qualify as "time-travelling" You should at a minimum be able to step and run backwards and inspect the values of variables at a previous point in time.

Ideally all debug features (breakpoints, watchpoints, tracepoints &c.) will work running both forwards and backwards. To meet the standard of the "perfect debugger" from the TFA intro, I would say you should be able to run backwards, modify a function, and run forwards again. I'm not aware of any debuggers that let you do this.

[sebastianconcpt]

Yeah. That's the normal way to work for a Smalltalk debugger.

I remember once debugging a thread without killing it. I've asked a customer to click on a link that would get to a bug while having remotely opened the IDE that was serving that user session, setting a conditional halt. Seen it halting, fixing the bug and saving the method with the halt removed and let the thread run. All the user saw was a long request that ended in service instead of that bug.

[aidenn0]

I don't see any "running backwards" mentioned in this story. I'm familiar with "break, fix, restart" debugging from Lisp (which had a lot of cross-pollination with smalltalk)

[leni536]

> Ideally all debug features (breakpoints, watchpoints, tracepoints &c.) will work running both forwards and backwards.

Executing arbitrary code in the program's context is also a regular debug feature, but I don't think many reversible debuggers allow this.

[aidenn0]

Hence "ideally"

[roca]

rr lets you call program functions just like gdb does (using the same gdb commands, in fact). The limitation is that any state changed by those functions is simply dropped when the function ends. It's still super-useful for dumping program state etc.

Pernosco supports this too.

[igouy]

afaik Smalltalk implementations usually provide step backwards but don't "run backwards".

"The stack of (framed) execution contexts gives a history of the computation so far. You can select any frame, view instance values in the receiver, view the arguments and method variables at that point."

So step backwards, modify a method, step backwards before that method send, and resume execution with the modified method. (Note: resume rather than restart, so the modified method has the preserved context unless we manually edit that context.)

[jayd16]

Which of these can't visual studio or intellij do?

[pjmlp]

hot code reload is very constrained in what can be changed.

It is great that it exists, but it isn't Smalltalk where at any moment the debugger can come up, you can change the world and hit continue without any issues, with all live instances updated to the latest set of changes.

[greglaw99]

IntelliJ can do time travel if you install the plugin: https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/14767-time-travel-debug...

[HdS84]

Most of it can be done by the c# debugger, especially in the laid versions of visual studio.