[jgust]

> Unfortunate H-1Bs tied to the job.

Or we could reduce the hoops & cycle time for legal immigration. The US has an opportunity right now to cement itself as the leader in technology for the next 2-3 decades and stave off the impending population growth crisis if we could find a way to enable people who want to live here to live here.

[stcroixx]

Or we could force these tech companies flush with cash to pay market rate and watch salaries rise or let these companies leave the country if they can’t afford to do business here. These are the richest companies on the planet and they don’t need a labor subsidy, they just want one and are powerful enough to get their way.

[echelon]

> leave the country if they can’t afford to do business here

Be careful what you wish for.

[stcroixx]

I was in the industry before this greedy trend accelerated out of control - I know first hand how much better things were before. I’ve seen a colleague choose death over the abuse the average H1B gets subjected to. The sooner this lie ends, the better for all of us.

[fallingknife]

I'm not interested in government policy that allows companies to bring in cheap foreign labor to undercut my compensation. There are 330 million people in the us, so if companies need more engineers, they can pay more and train more.

Also, there is no population growth crisis. A decreasing population means less stress on the environment and lower housing costs. Yes, there will be economic effects, but it's hardly catastrophic. Japan is managing just fine.

[jgust]

This is a very xenophobic view on immigration, and arguably the status quo. Past performance does not equate to future results, but I think you can draw the conclusion that the immense diversity that exists in the US compared to "rest of world" is a competitive advantage. What would it mean to lean in?

[JohnBooty]

    Yes, there will be economic effects, but it's hardly 
    catastrophic. Japan is managing just fine. 

I'm absolutely unqualified to say if they're correct, but there are a lot of economists predicting disaster for countries like Russia, Japan, and (not far behind them) China who will face this kind of demographic shift. The US is in the midst of this kind of shift as Boomers age through the system, but it is said that it will be less severe (thanks to younger immigrants) and less permanent than some other countries are facing.

Of course, you can find a lot of "experts" saying anything. Economics is an area where I haven't got the chops or the hubris to tell shit from shinola.

[echelon]

> government policy that allows companies to bring in cheap foreign labor to undercut my compensation

They become Americans and rise to your level of comfort and compensation. By working here in the US, they increase the wealth, tax base, and culture of our country. Immigration is a good thing. Skilled immigration even more so.

The alternative is that they stay in their home country, and that country grows a tech industry that rivals the US. Those workers will work for even cheaper than in the US, putting an even wider delta on price and creating an incredible arbitrage opportunity for talent.

Much like the automotive industry, foreign competition will drive margin out of our comfortable tech industry that has enjoyed being peerless for decades.

We're only going to see more `TikTok`s and `Spotify`s arise.

At some point, talent won't want to come to the US anymore. That should scare you.

I say all of this as someone who wants everyone to enjoy wealth and prosperity regardless of where they live. I still want opportunity and the ability to capitalize on it to be accessible to any American that would take it. And for that to continue, we should keep growing our talent pool and increasing the scope of what we can achieve together.

[fallingknife]

I see foreign competition as an inevitability, but I don't think number of engineers is a decisive factor. China and India have enough engineers already, and have for a while, but other than Tiktok, no real competition yet. Whereas Sweden, home of Spotify as you pointed out, has very few.

Even if number of engineers is decisive, we will never stop it by immigration. China + India have more than 8x the population of the US. We would never be able to deprive them of enough engineers via immigration.

[jgust]

^ This is roughly the point I was trying to make.