[themoonisachees]

As much as I despise Apple, they won this battle in the US. this isn't. About technology or whether or not video calls happen to exist on another platform. If for some reason GP's son was unable to create a twitter account when all his friends were on twitter, you can't just say "he can create an account on mastodon". Sure, it's technically similar but that doesn't matter because the problem is a social one and Apple has recognized that and has successfully tuned middle school kids into their sycophants by refusing to implement RCS. The fact that moving to a different messaging platform would solve this does not matter, because if these kids were willing to move platforms they wouldn't bully someone for having a green bubble to begin with.

[rwalle]

???What are you talking about? You really think Mastodon is a fair comparison? And bringing RCS here is also pointless.

To use WhatsApp/Duo/etc, all it takes is a phone number and maybe an email address (or a Google account you already have), and a few minutes of time.

If someone's girlfriend is like "I would rather just use FaceTime and call you 'by phone number', instead of spending that few minutes to set up an account for an app we can both use", I would agree with the person above -- this is too toxic.

[krackpot]

> To use WhatsApp/Duo/etc, all it takes is a phone number and maybe an email address (or a Google account you already have), and a few minutes of time.

> If someone's girlfriend is like "I would rather just use FaceTime and call you 'by phone number', instead of spending that few minutes to set up an account for an app we can both use", I would agree with the person above -- this is too toxic.

On principle, I agree the hurdle is not high to get another app/account. I even stand with you to not give in and succumb to this behavior.

The social aspect is harder. It may be easy to convince 1 person (the girlfriend) to do this, but what about her attached network of friends and all the group chats that come with? Will it be easy to convert all her friend groups and setup all the group chats to replace the existing ones?

I'm not sure anyone has that strong of a network effect unless they're at the top of the heap. In which case the girlfriend would have probably just downloaded the app and setup the account.

Even if they convinced the girlfriend and not her network of friends to get the app and new account, it would essentially still exclude and make them a "second class citizen" in that group. All it would take is not opening the app or seeing the notification or acting upon it to be relegated.

I think those not as tech friendly would want multiple 1 to 1 chat apps where there was one or very few people were on the other side. Just easier to convert people to the majority.

[em-bee]

i am sorry, i simply can not accept defeat on this issue. i do not have the financial means to buy iphones for all my kids (even old/used ones), so they will have to accept alternatives, and what matters here is to find ways to talk to the kids to understand that what they want is simply not possible in this form.

[brudgers]

There were plenty of things that he didn’t get for financial reasons.

Plenty he didn’t get for philosophical.

i simply can not accept defeat on this issue

For me doing something nice isn’t defeat, and his desire for an iPhone wasn’t an issue.

We were fortunate to be able to get him an iPhone. And fortunate he wanted an iPhone and not his own bong.

It might have worked out the same if we hadn’t. By working out I mean FaceTimeing with him now that he’s a grown ass man.

[paulcole]

Wait so is the issue financial or philosophical? If you had the financial means would you just buy iPhones for all of them if that’s what they wanted?

[em-bee]

it's both. i brought up the financial side to make clear that this is not something where i am going to budge, and i am not interested in any solution that involves buying iphones.

this is also an issue of social justice and exclusion of lower income families. anyone who is arguing that not getting an iphone means depriving their children from getting friends is missing the point. if that is what is happening in a community then that community is seriously broken, and we need to address this problem. excluding others because they don't have the necessary tech gadget is something that should not be allowed to happen.

if my kids do this to others then i failed as a parent.

[paulcole]

> anyone who is arguing that not getting an iphone means depriving their children from getting friends is missing the point. if that is what is happening in a community then that community is seriously broken, and we need to address this problem.

This is kind of like saying, “Yes my house is on fire now, but rather than put it out right now, we should research and develop fireproof houses.” Cool idea but your house still burns down. You can work on the bigger societal problem but if you can, address the immediate issue, which is you kid getting bullied. And yes it sucks if you can’t afford it, but if you can, buying the iPhone is a simple way to resolve the issue your kid is facing (albeit not the underlying problem).

[em-bee]

“Yes my house is on fire now, but rather than put it out right now, we should research and develop fireproof houses.”

so then what is your suggestion to put out the fire?

to stay with the comparison: there is no water.

if your idea of putting out the fire is getting iphones, then that simply is not an option. and then you are getting back to bullying. giving in to bullys is not an acceptable solution. the iphone will not solve the problem here at all.

bullying needs to be addressed differently. but that is not even something i am worried about. simply the inability to participate is already a problem. and it's going to remain a problem for those that can't get those tech gadgets. so what do you propose that we do about this? run a fundraiser and donate iphones to poor kids? legislate that kids have a right to communicate and are thus entitled to get an iphone? force apple to lower their prices?

here is one that might actually work: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34993823 require apple to make imessage interoperable, or at least force them to support imessage to run on android. it would not make the FOSS advocate in me happy, but that at least would be putting out the fire.

[paulcole]

> giving in to bullys is not an acceptable solution

Of course it is! It’s called picking your battles and sometimes you give in and sometimes you don’t. Everybody loses sometimes.