[Hanschri]

As a Norwegian I might be biased, but the viking era contains so many weird and interesting facts and happenings. I would strongly recommend checking out more on one of the following things I remember from the top of my head:

The works of Icelandic historian/poet Snorre Sturlason, he is most famous for what in English would be called 'Snorre's sagas of kings', which is widely regarded to be one of the most important books for Norway.

The Danelaw is also pretty interesting, but what I personally find even more interesting is the colonization and settlements in Ireland by vikings. Dublin, Cork, the Isle of Man and much more was settled by vikings. The Danelaw and settlements caused words from Old Norse to become fairly influential on English.

Someone else has mentioned Ibn Fadlan, who met vikings which came from the river Dnipro, which runs through modern day Russia, Belarus and Ukraine. Vikings traveled from Sweden towards Russia, giving the country it's name. The name Rus was first used about the Scandinavians in Eastern Europe, but later referred to the Kievan Rus.

The region of Normandie in France has it's name from the vikings, as Rollo the Walker was made ruler of the region by the king of France. This was allegedly after the vikings had tried to sack Paris for the n-th time. This deal was made on the premise that the people of Normandie would defend the rest of France from vikings and other raiders. Rollo the Walker is a direct ancestor of William the Conqueror, and by extension the British royal family.

The title jarl is often translated into English as earl, but the correct translation would be duke. Jarl is simply just etymologically related to earl.

Hope this random list wasn't too confusing, if anyone is interested in this I would gladly help with finding good English language sources!

[atchoo]

Other random facts...

Even without the Norman invasion, the British Royal family would be descendent from Norsemen through Godwinson's mother, daughter of Sweyn Forkbeard, grandchild of Harold Bluetooth (King of Denmark/Norway and inventor of frustrating wireless protocols).

After 1066, England was pretty awful for the Anglo-Saxon warriors/noblemen, a good number of them also fecked off to Byzantium and joined the Varangian guard like Vikings before them. They also created settlements in what is now Ukraine.

[arethuza]

Even more randomly: the current British Royals are also descended from Robert the Bruce, which is amusing given how energetically he opposed the Royals at the time.

And the story of what happened to his heart is pretty interesting as well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Teba

[throwaway6734]

The Varangian guard is so interesting and could have been something out of a book or movie. A Roman emperor having an elite squad of viking warriors to protect them!

[ElfinTrousers]

Totally...although it makes sense in context. The Byzantine court was notorious for conspiracies, cabals, backroom deals, logrolling, and other shady political manuvers. The Eastern emperors were also presumably aware of the history of the Praetorian Guard in the Western empire, so their choice of bodyguard would probably have been a matter they thought carefully about. The logic, then, was to bring in a bunch of foreigners, from further away the better, with no ties to Rome and no interests there besides getting paid. All the better if these foreigners were immense badasses with uncanny pale skin and enormous beards.

[fakedang]

Exactly. The Turks never destroyed Byzantium. The Byzantines destroyed themselves, and made life shitty for most of Europe in the process (a la the Crusades).

[ElfinTrousers]

Right--the Turks were just in a good position, literally, to pick up the pieces afterwards.

[fakedang]

I mean, it started with Manzikert, where the Turks just did their usual nomad stuff, which the Byzantines could have averted - if they weren't busy fighting amongst themselves and deserting the army.

[nickik]

Varangian guard was not really a elite guard unit. Varangian guard were stationed all around the empire and were more like a normal part of the military.

In the sources they show up just as often fighting in battles where the emperor was there and when he was not.

The did protect him on campaign, but that might just be because the were the primary infantry arm.

Some people think of them like the Praetorian guard, but that isn't really accurate.

[SergeAx]

They are depicted in "Raise and fall of D.O.D.O." by Neil Stephenson.

[sophacles]

* Neal Stephenson and Nicole Galland

[kspacewalk2]

>They also created settlements in what is now Ukraine.

Can you name something googlable or wikipediable so I can read more about this?

[atchoo]

Nova Anglia. Perhaps better to say "might have created settlements". There is a tantalising number of crumbs from place names to travellers reports but little written record. The alleged location would make them the first victims of the Mongolian invasion of Europe a few hundred years later.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_(medieval)

[throwaway6734]

Timothy Snyder has a great set of lectures about the making of modern Ukraine and he goes into great detail about the impact the Vikings had in the creation of Rus and their interactions with the Byzantines

[clucas]

I was about to recommend this series as well, really glad to see a fellow-traveller got there first!

Free, high-quality history content, can't recommend highly enough: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh9mgdi4rNewfxO7LhBoz...

[autophagian]

I believe they're referring to Nīwe Englaland/New England: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_(medieval)

[Archelaos]

> The title jarl is often translated into English as earl, but the correct translation would be duke. Jarl is simply just etymologically related to earl.

This is not so simple. Titles and their significance change over time. During the Anglo-Saxon period in Britain, an "ealdorman" was the ruler of one or (later) more shires; during the end of the period the title was shortend into "earl". The title lost later more and more of its importance. "Duke" was originally a French title (from French "Duc") and started to be used in England from the middle of the 14th century -- long after the Viking Period. Therefore it would be very anachronistic to translate "jarl" with "duke". If you were looking for the highest official of a shire in todays England you may prefer the translation "High Sheriff" (a title created in the early 1970s), but which is more or less only ceremonial. So no, a "jarl" is best to be left an "earl".

[atchoo]

> Duke" ... started to be used in England from the middle of the 14th century -- long after the Viking Period. Therefore it would be very anachronistic to translate "jarl" with "duke".

Apparently the Anglo-Saxon chronicle refers to Ealdormen as "Duces", plural of Dux, same Latin root as Duc and then Duke. It just means leader. As far as actual meaning then "second highest noble rank to a King" would mean that Jarls and Dukes are equivalent noble titles.

The spanner in the works is after 1066, Earls became equivalent to Counts, below the rank of Dukes. I wonder if this is due to King William still being a Duke in fealty to the King of France? Maybe the Shires were smaller/less-powerful than Duchies like Aquitaine, Normandy etc.?

So it sounds like it went: Ealdormen==Duke then after Cnut, Ealdormen==Jarl==Earl==Duke and then after 1066, (Earl==Count)!=Duke.

[shever73]

>an "ealdorman" was the ruler of one or (later) more shires; during the end of the period the title was shortend into "earl"

Do you have a source for this, please?

The OED says that "Ealdorman" is cognate with "Alderman", while "Jarl" is cognate with "Earl". The titles were used interchangeably, but one did not come from the other. The distinction being that earls held power under Danelaw. Earl replaced ealdorman as the title of distinction in the mid-11th century due to the extension of the power of earls outside of Danelaw.

[Archelaos]

Yes, my remark was not very precise. The two words seem to have different roots ("jarl"/"earl" < Old Engl. "eorl" = "brave man, warrior, leader, chief") vs. ("alderman" = "ald" + "man" = "old man").

Instead of writing:

"during the end of the period the title was shortend into 'earl'"

I should have written:

"during the end of the period 'ealdorman' was replaced by the etymologically unrelated, but phonetically close and shorter 'eorl', that later turned into 'earl'."

What I wanted to say is that "earl", though somewhat anachronistic, can still be an exceptable translation of "jarl". When the emphasis is on contemporary jargon, it might perhaps best be left untranslated. Another alternative would be to translate it with "count", because contemporary Latin sources sometimes use the word "comes" to refer to a jarl; but this translation has its own difficulties because "count" entered the English language also late via the French "comte". The only criteria in favour of "duke" is the fact that this title was later often used in Scandinavia instead of "jarl" for functionally similar offices. Another option is to translate "jarl" with "chief", which corresponds to a more general early usage of "jarl"; however, this would indicate too low a status for most of the Anglo-Saxon period.

My personal preference for the Anglo-Saxon period is to leave it untranslated. If someone insists on a translation, "earl" would still be the best fit in my opinion.

[_glass]

It just shows how globalized history is, and somehow really cosmopolitan. William the Conqueror was fighting at the battle of Hastings Harold, who's mother was Danish. We know the history because of a Medieval chronicler that was from Meissen in Saxony, and the chronicle is called Deeds of Bishops of the Hamburg Church, because it focusses on Hamburg. As a Saxon living in Hamburg, this is very entertaining.

[mytailorisrich]

> Rollo the Walker was made ruler of the region by the king of France. This was allegedly after the vikings had tried to sack Paris for the n-th time. This deal was made on the premise that the people of Normandie would defend the rest of France from vikings and other raiders

The deal was also conditioned on religious conversion and allegiance to the King of France, and he also married the King's daughter.

Win-win.

[caporaltito]

Also, if you put a guy controlling Normandy, he will control the mouth of the river Seine which runs in Paris. So you secure the biggest city of your kingdom from being raided from this river by enemies rowing it upstream, which was the biggest problem with Vikings raiders back then.

[mytailorisrich]

I'm thinking the King thought Rollo was a massive pain in the ass but also a very capable guy so decided to kill two birds with one stone.

[eschulz]

Brilliant stroke of win-win diplomacy, so long as we keep the concerns of the daughter aside.

[emsixteen]

Celts were on the Isle of Man long before the Vikings, but I'm just nit-picking.

I agree that the history of Vikings is way more fascinating and complicated than what's typically paraded about.

Shoutouts to Tore Hund!

[cozos]

There was a scene in The Northman (2022) which is based on Ibn Fadlan. After seeing the movie I read the account [0] which I found very interesting. This describes the scene in the movie:

> The men came with shields and sticks. She was given a cup of intoxicating drink; she sang at taking it and drank. The interpreter told me that she in this fashion bade farewell to all her girl companions. Then she was given another cup; she took it and sang for a long time while the old woman incited her to drink up and go into the pavillion where her master lay. I saw that she was distracted; she wanted to enter the pavillion but put her head between it and the boat. Then the old woman siezed her head and made her enter the pavillion and entered with her. Thereupon the men began to strike with the sticks on the shields so that her cries could not be heard and the other slave girls would not seek to escape death with their masters. Then six men went into the pavillion and each had intercourse with the girl. Then they laid her at the side of her master; two held her feet and two her hands; the old woman known as the Angel of Death re-entered and looped a cord around her neck and gave the crossed ends to the two men for them to pull. Then she approached her with a broad-bladed dagger, which she plunged between her ribs repeatedly, and the men strangled her with the cord until she was dead.

[0] http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ibn_fdln.shtml

[autophagian]

Given the settlement and Rollo, I loved finding out that 'Norman' more or less is from 'Northman'. Fun little "ohhh" moment.

[asveikau]

> Russia, giving the country it's name. The name Rus

It's worth mentioning that Russia is only one population that branched from the Rus', and it did not claim the name Russia until the ~1700s when the Duchy of Moscow entered an expansionist period... Rus' = Russia is an oversimplification that implies Russian dominance of Belarus and Ukraine.

[solalf]

On your point on Normandie, you can even go further! Ethnologically speaking Normandie, comes from its inhabitants’ name: the normands. This name is composed of “nor” and “man”, so it’s literally North Men from the French perspective - aka the Vikings.

The reason the French King gave them the region as a duchy, is because the Seine river, which passes in the middle of Paris, ends its course in present day Honfleur, Normandie. So Vikings would move their drakkars ships upstream from there and sack the city. Having Rollo installed as Duke put an end to the raiding.

It is said that when Rollo was made to kneel before Charles the Simple, to swear allegiance, he grabbed onto the king’s feet and threw him in the air. I don’t know if this is a true story, but it’s always amused me!

If you drive around Normandie today, you’ll see plenty of cars with drakkar stickers on their bumpers. A sign that many still identify with this heritage.

[unhammer]

If you're the kind of person who likes names that originally meant "northman" you'll love https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murmansk#Etymology

[imbnwa]

> The Danelaw is also pretty interesting, but what I personally find even more interesting is the colonization and settlements in Ireland by vikings. Dublin, Cork, the Isle of Man and much more was settled by vikings. The Danelaw and settlements caused words from Old Norse to become fairly influential on English.

I'd say this is almost an understatement[0], its rather shocking how many very average, day-to-day intellectual items are Norse in origin. Almost as if English is some sort of creole when you add the massive simplification of Old English on the way to Middle English; the Norman host was a tiny fraction of the population of speakers in England.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_of_Old_N...

[ElfinTrousers]

Another fun thing: despite their fierce reputation, the Vikings probably had the best personal hygiene in Western Europe at the time. They spent a lot of time on grooming their hair and beards, and contemporary writers noted that they typically bathed very frequently--which at the time meant once a week.

[xaedes]

Yet another etymological curiosity:

hǫfn is "old norse" for harbour or port. Now going to wiktionary and following the etymology:

hǫfn: From Proto-Germanic *habanō, *habnō (“harbour, haven”).

habanō: From Proto-Indo-European *kh₂póneh₂ or *kh₂pnéh₂, from the root *keh₂p- (“to take, seize, grasp”).

Other germanic words (like german "Hafen") for harbour/port also have a very similar lineage and derive from this "to take, seize, grasp".

So basically the harbour is the place you go to, when you are going "to take, seize, grasp", like when you invade other countries by sea.*

[rshaban]

"heaven"

[layer8]

The name “Rus” shares etymology with “rowing”:

“The name Rus', like the Proto-Finnic name for Sweden (*Ruotsi), supposed to be descended from an Old Norse term for "the men who row" (rods-) as rowing was the main method of navigating the rivers of Eastern Europe […]”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Rusʹ,_Russia_and_Ruth...

[yesbabyyes]

I was born in Roslagen so I may be biased, but that is likely where the name Rus comes from.

Roslagen comes from skeppslag, skepp as in ships, administrative regions which were required to each contribute one fully manned and equipped ship along with supplies.

A similar levy was taxed inland, called hundare (hundreds). There are three still remaining, the Chiltern Hundreds in Buckinghamshire.

[detourdog]

I”m very much interested in older cultures and their inland history. The Mediterranean cultures get the most coverage in our history studies. I believe the inland culture is probably parallel in its history. And development. I”m not that attracted to historical fiction. I’m very interested in cultural development and interactions.

Anything that covers that would be great,

[seneca]

It's largely a matter of record keeping. We know all about the Greeks and Romans because they left libraries full of stories and documents. The vikings are almost entirely only known from other people writing about them.

[was_a_dev]

As someone who grew up not far from York, the best experience as a schoolchild was visiting Danelaw village [1] - a recreated Viking settlement

[1] https://murtonpark.co.uk/for-schools/at-murton-park/viking/

[JustProNoob]

Think Ibn Fadlan witnessed Vikings on Volga river, which is even far more east and impressive.

[arethuza]

I believe that provided the background for the excellent movie "The 13th Warrior":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_13th_Warrior

[throwaway6734]

An all time fun movie!

[mcv]

Vikings have also ruled Sicily and Friesland. And probably a lot more.