[timst4]

Middle School educator here. I can assure you that your daughters will not be alone when it comes to a moratorium on social media. However, the girls they may very well want to be friends with may be very much into social media and group chats. My advice is to be firm but also take steps to create social opportunities for your daughters. I have a 12yo and I host board game nights with amazing snack trays. I help her to play video games socially using air console.

You have to play defense. These apps are deleterious to your daughters self worth. I’ve seen too many hospitalizations and suicides to believe otherwise. But you also have to play offense. They will need guidance on how to be social in a world coopted by manipulation and deceit. Parenting these days is challenging but it’s possible to raise girls who thrive without phones.

[lll-o-lll]

Thanks a ton for this. As a father of a pre-teen daughter who begs for a smartphone every day, I’ve been anxious about how I’m going to deal with this situation. I’d only been thinking in terms of defence, and this article had me really worried. Planning for how to create the social opportunities is just as important. Defence and Offence. I really like it!

[andrei_says_]

iOS has excellent parental control tools, down to time allowance on per app level.

Of course a decision to use restriction would ideally be one made together with the child so that they can truly consent.

[prawn]

My oldest is 10 and oldest daughter is 8, so we're approaching this challenge. We've talked to them in a broad sense about the issue, but your post made me realise that tackling it together is worth a shot. e.g., lots of talk about what the issue is, and what opportunities there are to address it. And then work together to devise a strategy. Not just them saying to peers "My parents say I'm not allowed to do x."

[andrei_says_]

> Not just them saying to peers "My parents say I'm not allowed to do x."

Yes, that's the core of it. Working together on facing the issue while supporting increasing the agency of the child.

Anything forced onto them is just an external force to deal with. A decision made together, with own interest and long-term vision in consideration, with rules derived from these goals, are a very different thing.

One trains the child to submit + secretly subvert, the other nurtures trust and trains collaboration, openness, iteration etc.

[kortilla]

>that they can truly consent.

This is bullshit. They are not consenting. They are succumbing to coercion due to power dynamics at best or are straight up being overridden by what you want.

Parenting is not negotiating with an adult, especially if they are preteen/early teenage years. They are humans with terrible executive functions that would be wards of the state without you.

You can certainly explain why you’re making a decision, but it’s really just your decision.

[roomey]

Don't take consent too literally here.

You get a lot further by engaging and explaining things with a child, and proceeding with their agreement.

"Because I said so" is not a good approach, which I think the op meant

[golergka]

You're right that kids can't make decisions yet. However, they should be taught to, and in order to learn something, you should be able to attempt it, even if you fail.

[maegul]

Sounds like some form of collective action could go a long way here to the point of being imperative. Get like minded parents and teachers and administrators together on this and work together to preview and encourage alternatives.

Tangentially, I’m curious if smoking went through a phase similar to this, where all the parents were doing it but there was still some recognition that children/teens shouldn’t and some parenting struggles against the ubiquity of cigarettes.

If so, what were the factors of success or failure? Did any progress in protecting kids from smoking have to wait until underage smoking was illegal or even the public push against adults smoking?

It really does feel to me like the smart phone and social media are the cigarettes of the millennial generation.

[jimbo9991]

I think you are on to something here. That's exactly what happened with smoking.

Factors for that being successful was mostly just repeating the information about how bad it was a lot in the beginning. Once everybody agrees about that, then you slowly start making it socially unacceptable.

I could see a similar thing happening with social media of awareness of the seriousness of the damage becomes as widespread as for smoking. As in I think it's possible that one day it will be totally socially unacceptable to be glued to your phone at a social event of some sort.

[maegul]

Yea, interesting!

If there's something to this analogy, I feel like it'd be worth being more commonly known.

For me, as a Millennial/Xennial, I sure as hell criticised the elders close to me for their smoking and their taking up the habit in their youth. For parents now who have similar stories, it might be a helpful perspective to have on how these things tend to happen and what's required to actually address any problems.

It might also lead to some uncomfortable reflections on the world us Millennials are passing on.

Maybe the best first step for parents would be to quit social media / smartphones themselves and get more active in creating alternative ways of being (however easier said than done that is)?

Interestingly, I'm also struck at how unclear it might be as to which is the worst of these two "generational original sins".

Despite all the health effects, maybe no one lost the ability to think deeply or critically assess propaganda or fall into a cult or become obsessed with their appearance or spent thousands of dollars to throw perfectly functioning pocket computers in the bin for slightly bigger ones from smoking?

A funny image comes to mind of senile Millennials refusing to give up their social media smartphones despite their carers' best efforts, wildly declaring that they've been scrolling timelines since before the carers were born and have been fine.

[xattt]

I‘ve got young boys, so I can’t speak directly to the fears that parents have about their daughters.

I think the door can swing both ways. While consumers can take tobacco as a playbook, there was recent reporting about the stickiness of iOS with Gen Z. I can imagine there a number of people want to (indirectly) keep it that way.

Platforms will come out with some feature that mitigates the social outrage, creates FUD around the true scale of the problem, and kicks the can down the road a little further while millions more get addicted for a little while longer.

[tlogan]

As both a parent and someone who interacts with middle school educators, I can confidently say that there may be gaps in your knowledge that you are unaware of.

Children today are often smarter and more technologically savvy than many adults give them credit for: and some of them will start “business” to sell “internet access” to others.

Just a comment form from dad fighting with similar issues.

[m463]

My friend found an unexpected portable nintendo in his son's closet. It was loaded with a LOT of games. He figures his son was playing with it during homework/sleep time to his detriment.

Turns out his birthday money from relatives financed it. Even though he was about 11 or 12, he found a youtube video on how to get a credit card, then was able to purchase a system and create an online account to buy games.

[grayfaced]

I wonder if it's more about the usage then the tool. Group chats that are used primarily for communication with a social group seems like it could be healthier. But using it as a feed of content from internet celebrities the opposite. Social media platforms are all trending towards being a constant feed.

I'm curious what the research would say about discord for example. Something centered around a participatory activity or around a group of friends.

[justinclift]

> using air console.

This one, yeah?

https://www.airconsole.com

[tylerscott]

Thanks for sharing this perspective. We have a 9yo and it's already the case some of her classmates have devices that are connected to social media. Very handy advice!

[haydar_ai]

Is it correct for me to assume that you have your daughter without a smartphone right? How is she communicating day-to-day with her peers in school then?

[zweiasakura]

thank you for sharing this sobering but hopeful perspective

[_blz2]

Maybe become a full time father? Dual income is to blame here since parents started thinking schools are day care for kids until they can be kicked out of home for college. Men shouldn't shy from stepping up if traditional roles of mothers are eroding.

Edit: should -> shouldn't

[prawn]

I think this is orthogonal to the issue.

By early teens, peers are the largest influence on a child and they have more than enough opportunities to pressure for or use a phone at school or after school, regardless of the work status of either parent.