[JustARandomGuy]

Millennial: same feeling here. When I talk to people of my parents generation they always talk about how cars let them roam about and give them freedom.

I never felt the same way, and I think a large part of that is that I grew up with the Internet; I could always AOL Instant Messenger (AIM) my friends or use ICQ. I was always connected even during an era of dialup. With the always-on functionality of modern phones, I’m sure that feeing is much more magnified. This doesn’t surprise me and I hope it drives a much more efficient future.

[jna_sh]

Cars have always felt more restrictive to me. I don’t want to have to worry about parking or road access or fuel when I’m visiting somewhere.

[wara23arish]

I have never understood the anxiety americans have related to parking. (unless you’re going to a music festival etc)

You literally just drive around for 5ish minutes and you find a spot. Ive lived in two major cities in america fwiw.

[dopeboy]

Then you haven’t had the full experience. Let me walk you through the awful things about parking:

* circling the block over and over until you find a spot.

* making sense of the layered rules on parking signs to make sure you can park

* finding the parking stall and/or downloading the app to pay for parking.

* making sure you have no valuables visible and each car ahead and behind have enough space to get out.

This is experience based off living in DC, NY, and the Bay Area. I’m actually OK paying for a car - but I have an absolutely no time for parking and traffic.

[bigpeopleareold]

I made the mistake of owning a car in Manhattan. I wanted to have it, but having to move the car like 3 times a week was a chore in itself and usually would end up eating up an hour or more trying to find something before giving up and going a bit far just to park it.

[ecf]

Lived in Berkeley for a year after graduation while commuting to South San Francisco and it was nearly impossible to find a street parking spot after getting home from work.

Just an anecdote to cancel out your anecdote.

[jna_sh]

I’m not American nor live in America. But as a resident of cities whose shape pre-dates the car across several dense European countries, I can relate to those fears.

[wildrhythms]

Indeed, the dread of having to park somewhere, especially street parking, or in some hideous paid parking lot or scary parking deck, was always a huge turn-off of driving places. It's so much nicer to be able to take public transit and not have to worry about that.

[andrepd]

Cars are a viable option only on low-density rural areas + long distance trips. Short distance you can do by biking (e-bikes are the modern evolution of the old two-stroke scooter) or walking. In high density public transportation is massively faster, cheaper, and more efficient that personal automobile.

[_dain_]

>In high density public transportation is massively faster, cheaper, and more efficient that personal automobile.

This assumes the public transportation is competently run, which is a rarity in the Anglophone world. In the UK I think the only good one is TfL.

Meanwhile Birmingham has a million people and no metro.

The one time I visited NYC the subway seemed third world.

[jfk13]

UK here: My brother and my 3 (adult, independent) kids all seem to manage fine without cars, and have done so for years. Only one of them lives in London, the others in much smaller places.

Sure, there are plenty of areas where it would be really difficult. But there are also a lot more places than just London where it's perfectly possible, depending on family circumstances and lifestyle choices.

[_dain_]

Yeah I live car-free in Cardiff. It's doable. But I won't kid myself and say that the public transport is good. It's mediocre like every British city outside London. It's a city of half a million and we don't even have a tram. As a nation we have far too low expectations for public transport.

[vanilla_nut]

You're entirely right that public transit in the UK isn't great. Compared to European countries like Denmark, the Netherlands, or Switzerland, it's mediocre. But compared to American transit it's incredible.

Two big differences in country design:

- in the UK, I felt like I could get to any town by transit. I imagine that isn't strictly true, but compared to the US, where I live in a half a state that's entirely devoid of any trains... big improvement

- UK cities are walkable, that is you can generally get anywhere just on foot. In the US cities I've lived in, downtown generally supports foot traffic, but as you get further out the sidewalks disappear, get scarier, and never have anyone walking around then.

[olddustytrail]

Glasgow and Edinburgh are fine for public transport.

[nicoburns]

Most cities in the UK are small enough that you can walk most places. Maybe combined with catching a bus into the center and back out again. Birmingham is possibly in an awkward middle ground where it doesn't have good public transport but is big enough that that's awkward.

[rootusrootus]

This is very obvious when dealing with young people today. When I was growing up, we came home from school, dropped off our bags, and then I didn't see the inside of my house until dinner time. Everything was outside, all the time. Even with the advent of the Nintendo, we still spent the vast majority of play time outside.

But then the Internet become a thing. For some of us sooner rather than later (I started earlier, as a tween, doing FidoNet and running a BBS). That shift online came with a tremendous increase in seat time in front of the computer.

So now I'd have to throw the kids out of the house and lock the door behind them, or they'll happily park in front of their computer playing games, watching YouTube, texting with friends that are literally across the street.

No wonder young people no longer see the car as freedom, they've lost the interest in even leaving their house, much less driving into the wilderness to take a hike or see the stars, etc. Sure, not all of them, but there is a very obvious pattern. And older generations aren't immune, of course, the allure of sitting on your butt in front of a computer screen appeals to all ages. But the older generations started with more habitual roaming habits.

[kayodelycaon]

I think there's a little more to this. I'm in my thirties and grew up in a lower-middle class suburb. Once I was in middle school, I didn't leave the house unless I was forcibly pushed out. All of the land around me had been sold and built on. Most of the owners didn't want other people's kids in their yard. The nearest park was several miles away and I wasn't allowed to go alone. My nearest friend was six miles away in the opposite direction.

Going outside the house was boring because all of the fun things I wanted to were too far away or off limits.

I knew a lot of people through my parent's church. This seemed to be a pretty common experience.

[revscat]

And if you want to choose not to own a car? Too bad! The laws are structured such that cars are forced on you. So now, having been made to buy a car you now must:

1. Spend thousands of dollars a year on gas, whether you want to or not

2. Buy auto insurance

3. Pay for routine maintenance like oil changes and brakes

And none of this is by choice.

I hate cars. Yet I am forced to own one in order to live.

[nicbou]

The feeling of freedom is only relative to the isolation of being a suburban teen without a car.

[macNchz]

Absolutely...I grew up in a rural place and got a driver’s license at 16, but have lived in NYC for over a decade and have thought about this often.

Teenagers here have no need to have a license or a ride from a parent to meet up with their friends. The level of independence is totally different, starts earlier, and is way safer.

[chasely]

Exploring by car is a reaction to how communities of our parent's generation were built. Live in a single family zoned suburb where you can't walk to anything? Of course you're going to end up exploring by car and "getting away".

I'm an older millennial but enjoy living in a community where I only have to get into a car a couple times a week, but can spend the reset of the time walking or biking around my community.

[yucky]

This strikes me as sad that young people are replacing real life connections with digital, and then wondering why they're all so depressed.

[rootusrootus]

> they're all so depressed

And fat, out of shape, with health problems that are normally associated with older people. I'm astounded at how many 20-somethings I've met who complain about knee and back problems.