[yucky]

Not sure I agree about the right being more likely to deny science, considering the way discussion around gender seems to work. I'm still trying to find out just how many there are, but nobody knows. Of course, we're not allowed to really discuss that though. Not sure that's very scientific..

[krapp]

Gender is a social construct[0], it is not defined by biological sex, although due to societal norms it often correlates, and can be influenced, by biological sex.

What isn't scientific (as is, no longer valid in scientific consensus[0]) is the premise that gender and biological sex are synonymous, and that, as your comment implies, transgender or nonbinary identity is a denial of science.

Just in case you're going to jump on to the title of the third article i posted below, note that it says gender is not just a social construct, rather than that it isn't such at all. I'll quote an excerpt from that article:

    Evidence that gender has some basis in biology, though, in no way implies a strict gender binary, nor negates the existence of transgender and non-binary identities. Many biology-based gender differences originate from the hormonal environment within the womb, which is very different on average for boys compared to girls. But there’s a huge variation in these environments, says Alice Eagly, psychology professor at Northwestern University. “Within boys there will be a range and within girls there will be a range. To say it’s biological doesn’t mean it’s perfectly binary,” she says.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_gender_distinction

[1]https://medicine.yale.edu/news-article/what-do-we-mean-by-se...

[2]https://qz.com/1190996/scientific-research-shows-gender-is-n...

[leereeves]

Some people are trying to restrict the word "gender" for political purposes, but it also continues to be used as a synonym of biological sex, a meaning that it has had for centuries.

> In the 15th century gender expanded from its use as a term for a grammatical subclass to join sex in referring to either of the two primary biological forms of a species, a meaning sex has had since the 14th century

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gender

[bitwize]

It's not political. Which programs to allocate the government budget to is political. This is a human rights issue. Extensive research has been done into the relationship between the physical, psychological, and social aspects of sex and gender, and the definitions we use today reflect our current understanding of how these interact, acknowledging that some people's psychological and social selves may not correspond with their physical biology. Refusal to acknowledge these people's lived experience is pigheaded ignorance and rank bigotry.

[leereeves]

I agree it's a human rights issue, but it's a very complicated one, and trans rights conflict with other human rights. Sometimes biology matters.

Allowing biological females to participate in separate sports without biological males, for example. Where do you stand on that? Don't you agree that biology (like testosterone level) matters sometimes?

Or in dating, do you think people have the right to want to know the biological sex of someone they date?

I acknowledge the lived experience of trans people but I don't think their desires outweigh the interests of all other people.

And of course, balancing those competing interests is absolutely political. It's just dishonest to claim this isn't political.

[krapp]

Both science and language evolve over time, that isn't a political conspiracy.

The point is, only one of the two sides in this debate are denying current (not 14th century) science, and it isn't the side you or yucky seem to believe.

[leereeves]

No one denies, as your source says, that "neither the health of women nor men is simply a product of biology but is also influenced by sociocultural and psychological experience". That's science.

But trying to dictate that people only use a word in a new way and never use its traditional definition is not science, it's (Orwellian) politics.

And pretending that biology doesn't matter is denying the very science you quoted.

Finally, the major questions about trans rights aren't about science at all, they are about values and why institutions exist.

Do we separate boys and girls in sports because of gender roles (sociocultural), or to give girls an opportunity to play sports without competing against people made stronger by high testosterone (biology)?

Do we separate men's and women's prisons because of gender roles (sociocultural), or to prevent sex and pregnancy (biology)?

Etc.

[hairofadog]

It changed in the 15th century, and it’s changing now. Language is like that.

[yucky]

So then what constitutes a gender now, and how many are there?

[leereeves]

I agree, it's not a new phenomenon, language changes all the time.

But while some language changes rise from the people, others (like this one) are dictated by powerful institutions.

Orwell described it well about 100 years ago. Change the meaning of words to make disagreement impossible. Newspeak "designed to diminish the range of thought".

[hairofadog]

eyeroll

[leereeves]

Nothing constructive to say? Are you here to discuss this topic, or to prevent discussion?

[yucky]

This doesn't even read like an answer to my comment. I am genuinely curious, how many genders are there? And what are they, and who determines what constitutes a gender?

[bitwize]

Gender and physical sex are spectra. Asking someone to enumerate them is like asking them to enumerate the complex numbers. https://cadehildreth.com/gender-spectrum/

Note that this link presents incomplete information as it seems to imply there is only one axis to the gender spectrum.

[yucky]

I'm comfortable being on the other side of the argument from anybody who says biological sex exists on a spectrum and compares the number of sexes to the set of complex numbers.

As to gender, well then it sounds like you're just describing another word for personality. So what exactly is the difference?