[nonrandomstring]

Nobody who cheers "mobile tickets" has ever watched a guard or ticket inspector do their job.

In the UK, a guard with good eyesight and a sprightly, cheerful manner can almost run through the carriages shouting "tickets please!" and see, with a single glance, all s/he needs.

Then she gets to the muppets with phones. They faff, fumble and fuss. They scowl at being interrupted watching videos, browsing social media and listening to music. They can't load their app. They huff and sigh disrespectfully. The guard can't get focus. For a moment they point phones at each other like cowboys in a gunfight standoff. She doesn't have a wifi signal, so now there's a long and embarrassing delay while passenger and guard stare at each others feet.

Finally a joyful beep releases them from technological tension. Everyone in the car sighs with relief and she moves on to the next grinning smombie.

The whole technology is a festering shitshow foisted on people by over-zealous tech peddlers.

Paper tickets rule.

[IanCal]

Have you ever actually been on a train in the UK? Ticket inspectors will go on to do anyone that's ready and come back - they're not bemused by someone without their ticket ready. And people constantly also fumble for their tickets then present an old ticket, then the return instead of the outgoing one, then the seat reservation not the ticket etc.

My local station doesn't sell tickets. It has no office. I can buy an advance then drive miles to a totally different station to print them out or just buy it on my phone even on the way to the station and be done with it. I guarantee you buying from the ticket inspector is slower than showing them my phone.

[ghaff]

I don't remember it being so bad on my last trip, but a number of years back two of us were doing a long distance walk in England. I remember train tickets being this exercise of "Which of these cards are the right ones to feed into the turnstile?" while people were piling up behind us.

In general, transit systems do a pretty terrible job of usability testing for people who aren't so used to the system that it's second nature and may not even read the language.

[Symbiote]

I think the "slightly easier to read" which the article refers to was done to remove the confusion of separate tickets for the journey and the reserved seat.

[OJFord]

Weird, that's not my experience at all.

I have my digital ticket ready when the guard's behind me, interrupting my video/HNing far longer than is necessary to do so, and everyone else is asking for 'X from <last station they can remember> please', cursing that this train actually had someone to call 'tickets please', as I feel like a mug for actually paying in advance every time.

[madeofpalk]

> Paper tickets rule.

Paper tickets suck. It's already a pain having to navigation the station to find your platform, and then add onto it trying to find a ticket machine. Make sure you get the right ticket machine because multiple train companies operate from this station!

And then you have to hold on to it for the duration of your journey and not lose it, otherwise you'll face the fine.

[lozenge]

You can buy any ticket from any machine, it's only the first screen that's different. If you go to type your destination then it allows you to buy any ticket.

[rippercushions]

I went to an exhibition at a museum today. There's a distance of maybe 5 meters between the ticket office and the exhibition entrance. Instead of getting a paper ticket and handing it over at the gate, I had to tell the clerk my phone number, wait a few moments to receive one SMS for each person, click on a link in each SMS to retrieve a separate per-person QR code that could be scanned at the gate, and then click back and repeat individually for everybody in my group. Such efficiency!

[dTal]

Yes, they efficiently extracted your phone number.

[nkrisc]

The e-tickets I use on my local commuter rail are nothing like what you described. When I want to use a ticket, I activate when I get in the train and then the conductor glances at it and sees whatever they need to see. Zero difference from paper ticket. They just walk down the carriage looking at paper tickets and phones all the same.

[nonrandomstring]

I'm on SWT. Where do you have ones that are eyes-on? Our guards have to do the scan-beep dance and it slows everything to a crawl.

[nkrisc]

MARC, in Maryland. As I recall there is a QR code they can scan but I’ve never seen them do it. Likely just as an option if they have reason to think someone’s trying to cheat.

[tom_]

This doesn't match up with my experience. The "tickets please" acts as a warning to phone-ticket users that they need to get the QR code visible.

Could depend on when you travel I suppose.

[nly]

I feel the same way about people who use mobile phone NFC payment at ticket barriers on the tube instead of a plastic cards (again via NFC)

Using your phone is much slower and there's a significant chance it'll just fail and hold up the person behind you (me).

[brewdad]

Last April, I did the credit card tap in NYC. Last month I was there again and tapped my iPhone and never had an issue. It felt just as fast or even faster since my phone is usually more accessible than a given card in my wallet.

I wonder if the Tube’s tap in tap out setup contributes to the issues you see.

[nly]

It's not the tech per se, it's that you have to open the app or at least unlock the phone (whichever it is), and people are more cautious with their phones compared to a card. They also tend to watch the screen instead of where they're going.

I can slap down my card with my arm outstretched, without breaking my stride, and before I hit the barrier it opens.

Observe a phone user in a London rush hour and it causes a noticeable backlog at gates

[kamilner]

You neither need an app nor do you need to unlock your phone in order to use it for the ticket gates on the tube. Perhaps older phones need to be unlocked?

I use my phone exclusively without unlocking it and there's no delay.

[djhworld]

That hasn't been my experience at all, at least in London, UK.

There used to be a time where the oyster card was slightly faster than the phone in terms of registering at the barrier but that's improved a lot over time.

I don't live in London anymore but when I've visited it's been so good just tapping your phone through everything.

Additionally the hold ups at the barriers in my experience are more down to people's misunderstanding of the cadence required between each passenger. This applies to both oyster/card and phone, and is more of a UX problem of the barrier rather than the technology used to activate it

[NoZebra120vClip]

Last week I was picked up by a bus that had technically already departed, so the operator told me to take a seat quickly. I really needed to test out the mobile fare for the pilot project, so I waited for the next opportunity to scan the QR at a safe, legal stop.

A dude was attempting to board, and I was hardly 10 seconds at the scanner when he urged me to get out of his way! It's bad enough when a magstripe pass doesn't scan on the first try... it's going to be murder if everyone's fumbling with their phones and apps and wireless connections.

[Symbiote]

That ticket inspector can also turn a blind eye to invalid tickets (apply their own discretion/favours/whatever), while they'll probably need to follow the official policy with an app-based ticket scan.

From the article, it seems unlikely that a data connection is required to validate a ticket, except to prevent the same ticket being shown twice to different inspectors within a short timeframe.

[ilammy]

What stops the inspector from turning a blind eye to app-based tickets?

If you want a true technological dystopia solution then the train car should be engineered in a way that nobody gets in or out of the car without a valid ticket. Like, make entrances a double-door, then you gotta swipe your ticket to board, deboard, go between cars while enroute, etc.

[OJFord]

They definitely need a data connection for a ticket sale, (but they'll go ahead and come back or whatever) I'm not sure about validating digital advance sales.

[sschueller]

This was an issue in Switzerland initially with the introduction of the SwissPass (very ugly looking thing, at least the new one looks a bit better [1]) which no longer showed what it was (the old Abonement cards where translucent [2]) but was a card with a photo on it and you would have a ticket connected to that card which the conductor could check with their smartphones either via NFC or the qr-code on the back. The Samsung phones that where issues where slow to scan the cards via NFC.

Today you can also have everything on your phone which then gets scanned withe QR-Code. BTW, this code changes every few seconds so screenshots don't work. You can also instead of purchasing a ticket do something that is called "check-in" where you check-in before you get on the train and a GPS type ticket is issues. At the end of the day the best possible rate for you is then calculated and your are billed. Downside is, you need to be "tracked" by the train company for this to work.

However the process to inspect tickets is again as fast or faster than it was before. In fact when someone has paper tickets (specifically papers from non-Swiss ticket offices (France, Italy etc.)) it can take longer.

There is also a rule if you can't present your ticket in a timely manner it's considered invalid. This never happens but when the conductor yells tickets please, get your phone out.

[1] https://www.swisspass.ch/new-swisspass?lang=en

[2] https://hymnos.existenz.ch/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/DSC037...

[SCdF]

This has not been my experience of digital vs paper tickets in any country at any point, the UK included. And I don't mean it mostly doesn't happen, I don't think I've ever particularly noticed an instance of drama created through tickets being digital specifically.

[jonathantf2]

Paper tickets are an absolute pain - I hate having to fumble around trying to find them, instead of just double clicking the power button and bringing up my Wallet.

I've only ever had it checked by the barriers, I can't remember the last time I saw a conductor checking tickets on a train.

[stevekemp]

Some stations don't have barriers, which seems to correlate with tickets being checked on those routes more frequently.

(e.g. York, or Edinburgh.)

[scrollaway]

Kids these days, how dare they use technology, am I right, fellow luddite on the internet?

People lose paper tickets. People throw them on the ground. Stations are littered with them. Oh, and people do spend ages looking through their pockets, bags, coats and other places for where their paper ticket is at.

You're just being contrarian because you're on a tech website, tbh.

[LtWorf]

If a mobile phone is now a prerequisite for living, governments should issue them to all citizens, and provide maintenance and replacement.

Or just don't expect people who don't own a phone to own a ticket.

[arp242]

Not just a mobile phone, but a phone with either iOS or Android. Plus, a phone with an account with either of two parent companies (avoiding that on Android is possible, but far from trivial). Any "alternative" system is basically a non-starter as all these apps are typically only developed for these platforms, and it's become very hard for any new player to enter the market.

While the duopoly is better than the monopoly of Microsoft Windows back in the day, it's also worse as the reliance on software is much greater, and its become harder (if not impossible) to write your own implementation for $alternative_system.

[lgeek]

It doesn't need to be a phone running iOS and Android, you just need an email client and a PDF viewer for UK train etickets

[intelVISA]

If that's the case they should be issued free (as in tea in the harbor) open source devices free from Apple/Google spyware for this purpose.

[scrollaway]

What on earth is your logic there? “You have the option to send a PDF, thus I deserve a free phone of my particular choice”?

[_dain_]

you can use a laptop

[nkellenicki]

That's not what the OP claimed at all. Paper tickets still exist. A mobile phone is not requisite. People can choose the option that works for them.

[LtWorf]

Come here in Sweden.

The main station of the 2nd biggest city has TWO ticket machines.

The minor stations have none. You're expected to use the phone.

[Symbiote]

I wondered on a recent trip where I was supposed to add credit to a Västtrafik card I had from a previous trip.

In Denmark, there are equivalent top-up machines at almost every rail and metro station. (The exceptions are some very rural lines, where machines are on trains instead.)

At the central station in Copenhagen there must be at least 10 machines, if not more. There are also two SJ ticket machines! Sorry Gothenburg.

[LtWorf]

You must go to pressbyrån, but many people use their app to buy the ticket. This of course means that you can get fined if your phone runs out of charge.

The trams have a machine selling tickets on board, and that costs sensibly more than the other options. There is no way to buy tickets on a bus. On a train you must plea your case to the conductor as to why you have no ticket. For example like explaining that the pressbyrån closed at 15.00 and the closest open one implied an 8km walk.

[nonrandomstring]

> littered with them.

I don't see that. The ticket barriers are programmed to retain used tickets. And please lay-off the "contrarian" slurs, I'm just telling you what I see with my eyes each day. If you looked up from your phone you might notice too :)

[JamesMcMinn]

ScotRail have started to print tickets with QR codes on them, which unfortunately are an awkward size (far bigger than a credit card, even larger than a £20), come as a single strip without a perforated edge to tear, and are generally very low quality. I full expect these to become a common sight on the ground as they're not eaten by machines and difficult to store even in your wallet.

[hwatson]

It’s a shame these have become more commonplace.

Northern started issuing them instead of cardboard tickets a few years ago and other TOCs followed along after Network Rail/Cubic finished adding barcode readers to ~all ticket barriers.

I understand why: paper barcode-only tickets are significantly cheaper than cardboard tickets (their lack of a magstripe allows any generic thermal printer to be used), but their larger form factor makes them a definite UX downgrade.

[scrollaway]

Ticket barriers that swallow tickets are not universal. In many cities tickets are reusable over a long period of time and contactless.

I see downvoters are happy to downvote facts, good going HN tonight.

[Symbiote]

Those aren't the tickets that would be littering the ground.

[TEP_Kim_Il_Sung]

People lose phones, or steal them, or hack them. Oh, and people do spend ages looking through their pockets, bags, coats, and other places for their phones too. But paper tickets are less likely to be hacked, and don't run out of power.