[nowherebeen]

I think employees treat startups more and more like a jumping pad to get to their ultimate goal of work for Fang. There's no point staying at startups when working at a big tech will yield more money in the long term. I don't blame them though. Look at how startups are run nowadays, all the potential upside has been sucked dry by VCs.

[bgribble]

That’s true for some people but not everybody. I like little companies and am willing to take less salary for the enjoyment of building the product from the beginning, knowing every single person you work with, and playing different roles in the team.

I have worked for mega-companies via acqui-hire and I feel like my preference is based in solid experience. I’ve never hired into a company with more than 30 employees in my 30+ years as a developer and probably never will. My current gig is now grown well into the size range where I frequently am reminded why I don’t like bigger companies :(

[whstl]

I used to 100% agree with this, but now I realize that smaller companies have different issues that can make the experience as bad as larger ones, and you gotta learn to compartmentalize the same way.

In the end this is just a job, and we should focus on what's best for ourselves. This is possible and necessary with both large and small employers.

[zeroonetwothree]

Big companies build new things all the time. And you can easily join a startup which is several years old and has massive tech debt that you are stuck cleaning up. So I don’t think wanting to build new stuff from the ground up necessarily means a startup is best.

Knowing everyone you work with is certainly nice. At big companies you usually work as part of a team of, say, 8-12. And depending on your role and level you might rarely interact with others. At a startup you might have to talk to customers or other partner companies. So I wouldn’t even say it’s universally better in that way.

I do think a big benefit of startups is it’s much easier to get a sense of ownership for what you are doing which generally leads to more job satisfaction. Feeling like a mere cog can be demoralizing.

[cudgy]

> So I don’t think wanting to build new stuff from the ground up necessarily means a startup is best.

This is true, but why the focus on building new things? Improving and utilizing existing code bases is where most of the value from a software developer can be gained.

[grugagag]

Good learning experience but not likely good for your bank account. May be worth the price when a youngling but not sustainable afterwards

[rolenthedeep]

I work at a startup and I make enough that my fiance could quit his shitty job and pursue whatever he wants. Our bills are taken care of, and we both have the freedom to do whatever makes us happy.

For me, I take joy from my work. I get to build something new and cool, and I work with a bunch of fun people.

We have enough money, and sometimes enough is enough. I could earn much more at another company, but why? What would I do with the excess money? Buy more shit I won't use? I earn enough money to support my family and I get it from a job I find personally satisfying. More money won't make me any happier, and will just cause more problems. No thanks.

Trying to maximize my salary at all costs just so "number go up" seems incredibly unhealthy and shortsighted. I'd rather be happy and fulfilled.

[winternett]

>Trying to maximize my salary at all costs just so "number go up" seems incredibly unhealthy and shortsighted. I'd rather be happy and fulfilled.

Sounds like you have an exit plan already worked out? You sound like you have a good retirement saved up or something else working to keep you free of worry.

For the majority of ppl working in this world, they don't have any options which is also accompanied by debt, and the future is always uncertain unless progress is upwards, and most of the time there is a ceiling to potential... There's often no healthy choices for people who didn't have the ability to save up.

[zeroonetwothree]

My reason for wanting more money is as insurance. Who knows if the future will be as favourable to our industry. Perhaps software will go into a giant slump and salaries will plummet closer to the median. Or perhaps I’ll have personal medical issues that make it difficult to continue working. Or there could be unforeseen personal expenses (kids, family emergency, I or my partner wants to quit working or change careers). Or any other things that I can’t even imagine. The “unknown unknowns” as they say.

So I make around 3x what I actually need to but save the rest. I expect to have enough to “retire” in a few years and then I’ll be able to pick jobs purely based on interest and fun and not pay. For me that’s worthwhile.

[lotsofpulp]

Same here. Due to demographic changes, I am predicting services and products I need in old age will be increasing in price at much quicker rates than in the past.

[bgribble]

For me, personally, my goal is not just to maximize lifetime income. It's much more important to me to have a workplace with good collaborators and meaningful work where I feel like I am contributing something unique and valuable. I have tried to follow that throughout my career (not that I haven't ended up in some bad workplaces from time to time!) and overall I have no complaints with where I am financially. If you told me you would double my salary to work for Amazon I would say no without hesitation.

[zeroonetwothree]

To be fair, some people like their Big N jobs. It’s not like they are guaranteed to be worse.

[eropple]

This is pretty overblown, I think. I have with intention avoided working for very large companies for most of my career and have a nice house in a major urban area. I save plenty of money and am reasonably likely to retire (defined as "do work I want to, when I want to, for play money etc.") before I'm 55.

If $200K/year at senior/principal isn't "sustainable"--well, move out of the SFBA, I guess.

[zeroonetwothree]

Not everyone has the flexibility to move wherever they want. I have family obligations in SFBA so I’m kind of stuck. Not that it’s super bad but I dream of saving 2x as much by moving somewhere cheaper.

[eropple]

I absolutely have a lot more empathy for locals than I do for the yearly influx, yeah.

[grugagag]

There are startups and startups. Your compensation is not bad at all. I was talking about startups that do this scammy thing mentioned in the thread.

[eropple]

That's the thing, though. Everyone knows equity value has decreased and salaries have generally increased to reflect it. Within some error bars, $200K is a pretty representative one amongst folks I know who are working for startups in a senior/principal role.

There was much more of a delta when I started doing this ~10 years ago, but even then few people were in a hard spot (again, SFBA types maybe excluded, get another two roommates I guess).

[smoe]

I worked 15+ years in small companies (not necessarily startups) and always made above median salary for the age. Certainly not having as lavish a lifestyle as I could if money were my first priority in life, but sustainability has never been an issue at all.

This is in my opinion the biggest luxury of working in tech over a lot of other occupations, being able to fairly comfortably value other things over salary and not having to take whatever job that pays a little more.

[zeroonetwothree]

I think hardly anyone in any job is fully maximizing their income. I’ve heard friends say the same thing as you about their $20/hr jobs. Like they could switch and get $25 but they are comfortable and able to live on it so why bother.

[moomoo11]

It’s not all about the money tbh.

[whstl]

Yeah, that's something I noticed as well. Smaller companies have become a mere rite of passage. I now see a lot of young candidates intending to only stay one or two years on a small startup to get experience before quitting, some of them confiding that right after signing the contract. And older developers historically already prefer jumping ship rather than negotiating salaries or facing situations they can't win.