[coder543]

This is the real problem. M2 is just using LPDDR5. The memory modules themselves don't appear to be anything special; it's just the memory interface bus that is different. Apple is charging multiple times the actual cost per GB, and they do the same thing for SSDs. The entry-level product is a decent value, but the upgrades are ridiculous.

[winter_blue]

> Apple is charging multiple times the actual cost per GB, and they do the same thing for SSDs.

Yup. I just checked Newegg, and laptop form factor DDR4 (not DDR5ᵃ) RAM is selling for $126 for 64 GB (2 x 32 GB).

So market price for 1 GB of DDR4 small form factor RAM is $1.96 per GB.

ᵃ DDR5 is almost twice the cost.

Apple is charging 200/8 = $25 per GB.

Apple charges 12 times the retail price of DDR4, and about 6 times the retail price of DDR5.

It's crazy, but they get away with it by soldering these chips down.

If we could legislate a working effective Right to Repair bill, we might be able to fix this predicament.

[NavinF]

Soldered chips are here to stay. DDR5 already struggles on 4-slot desktop mobos and laptops with SODIMM slots. You can use 2-slot mobos and CAMM to solve those problems for now, but I would be unsurprised if the DIMM/SODIMM DDR6 never sees wide adoption and everyone moves to soldered RAM by 2030.

[winter_blue]

> everyone moves to soldered RAM by 2030

This would be really horrible, and I hope it never happens. I was just readin up on CAMMᵃᵇ, and to me, CAM looks really promising. It solves the challenges with SODIMM, and the article says:

> We mentioned the faster DDR5 speeds above, but it is thought that CAMM could really take off when DDR6 arrives. Another appealing variation might be for adding LPDDR(6) memory to laptops. Traditionally LPDDR memory is soldered, so the new spring contact fitting modules might mean much better upgradability for the thinnest and lightest devices which tend to use LPDDR memory.

I'd like to see legislation passed (even if at the state/regional/provincial level) that forces laptop (and other device) manufacturers to use user-replaceable CAMM memory modules instead of solder-on modules (unless solder-on memory is absolutely needed/justified by a high technical need for it – and the bar for this should be high). Similar legislation for batteries, device screens, etc. – mandate standard interfaces and easy replacibility.

This will likely increase BOM, but it shouldn't add more than $10 to the overall average retail price of various devices.

ᵃ https://www.tomshardware.com/news/camm-to-usurp-so-dimm-lapt...

ᵇ https://www.pcworld.com/article/693366/dell-defends-its-cont...

[NavinF]

Realistically, higher end manufacturers will just stop selling devices to that state/region/province and people who live there will figure out a way to buy what they want. There's a reason why the single most popular laptop model in the US happens to be a macbook and the iPhone is the most popular smartphone here.

There will always be laptops with DIMM slots in the future just as there are laptops that have CPU sockets today. But the bulkiness and performance gap will only increase every year. CAMM has about the same thickness as a single SODIMM slot so it only saves space if you need 2 sticks worth of RAM. Also compare 2 slot vs 4 slot DDR5 overclocks on desktop to see the impact of signal integrity.

[ziml77]

Apple has always charged those kinds of prices for RAM and storage upgrades. They don't care that their devices aren't a value purchase. And as long as people buy their products and pay those kinds of prices for upgrades, they really have no reason to change.

[coder543]

At one time, the prices kind of almost made sense. Apple just hasn't really "remembered" to update their upgrade prices for the last 5 years or so, and now they really don't make sense. I expect Apple will adjust upgrade prices to reflect reality at some point, but they will certainly milk this "forgetfulness" for as long as they can.

[Nullabillity]

At one time Apple had to be competitive with aftermarket upgrades.

[nicoburns]

They have, but it used to be the case that these components were user-upgradeable.