Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
I Lost over $200k
41 points by uditgoenka 1256 days ago
years ago, I lost just over $200,000 and went into a heavy depression.

Today, I am sharing the learning lessons so that you do not make the mistakes I made.

1. Do not trust people blindly, especially your team:

This was the number mistake my cofounder Oscar, and I made. We trusted our team blindly.

2. Don't launch an unstable product:

My product was in the alpha stage, and I fell for someone's trap who asked me to launch my product early, leading to many angry and upset customers.

3. Do not build an ALL-IN-ONE product:

Time and time, even at PitchGround, we see founders having a large vision and wanting to BUILD an all-in-one tool.

It's a recipe for disaster because it's very difficult to manage the repo if the scope is too large.

Instead, split the large vision into multiple smaller projects if you want. It's easier to manage, maintain, grow and kill if things are not working out.

4. Follow a systematic launch cycle:

- Idea: Validate your idea with at least 80 out of 100 people who have paid you $1 for your idea. - Build JUST one MOST REQUESTED FEATURE by your buyers in your idea stage. - Test, TEst, TESt, TEST...and KEEP testing.

Many companies need to understand the importance of QA during early-stage. You don't want frustrated users.

5. Focus on stability and not UI/UX:

Your MVP should focus on stability and not UI and UX because your initial set of customers won't care how fancy your product looks, but what they care about is whether their problem is getting solved or not.

6. Sell to at least 1k paying users before building more:

We made a huge mistake by building more, leading to more stability issues and unsatisfied users.

7. Build an audience before building a product:

I wish someone had told me this 5-6 years ago. Please only build a product if you have an audience.

Spend at least six months building enough audience, so your initial distribution becomes very easy.

I have learned more valuable lessons, which I will share in the future, but I hope these lessons help you build better & smarter.

Let me know your thoughts in the comment below.

----

Edit:

Since many of you requested to share more details, here is the short backstory:

I started working on my SaaS somewhere in 2016, and the first thing I did was hired a CTO.

The person had around 3+ years of experience.

Not only was I paying a good salary, but I was also paying for his rent. When we started building the initial set of products, the overall product development kept getting delayed. He said we needed more developers, so we hired around 6-7+ developers.

All the developers were reporting my ex-CTO, and as per our mutual understanding, I was not allowed to have any say in how the product will be developed, and he will be offered full support and resources.

I agreed to that.

Several months passed, and the product was not ready, but I was also losing cash quickly. I was already under heavy stress because there was no flow of income for the product.

I met someone during this time who told me that I should launch my product, and some people will even buy during the alpha stage. I found it skeptical but fell for that trap because I was desperate to bring in more cash to keep the funding going on for the project.

This is where I made another mistake because I unknowingly ended up overpromising, and my team failed to deliver a quality product.

Over 1.5 years passed, and we still needed a stable product.

Over two years went by, and I still did not have a stable product, and this is when my ex-CTO quit, and a few other developers quit along with him when I realized that he used my resources to build his product and shortly flew out of the country.

..I ended up hiring an outside dev team with the little more money I had to keep my promise to the customers, but that did not go well either.

I had no money left; I had to shut the project completely because I had deep into reds and had gotten into heavy clinical depression.

24 comments

There's not enough detail on what happened, the product, market, etc. to get anything out of this. I fell for the clickbait title but was just confused
This is the first time I am submitting something like this on Hackers News, so wasn't sure if I am allowed to post about the company details. But I can share more details if I am allowed.
sure, I guess I'm wondering who is the target audience and what are they supposed to get from it? As a cautionary tale, it seems both incredibly specific to your exact product area, yet also lacking detail to make it a case study that I felt I can learn from.

Not trying to be negative in any way, I was just a bit confused as to the intent and purpose.

Not to dismiss your points, but if you are going to title the post “I lost 200k” it’d be nice to at least explain where the money went. Was it routine operating expenses that ultimately went to fund a failed product, or something more nefarious (#1 hints at that).
Almost all the funds went into operations.
If this is the case then you invested 200k. It could take a long time before you get a return. Just change your horizon.
> Today, I am sharing the learning lessons so that you do not make the mistakes I made.

> 1. Do not trust people blindly, especially your team.

> This was the number mistake my cofounder Oscar, and I made. We trusted our team blindly.

Your number-one mistake was trusting your team?

That sounds like it could be finger-pointing downwards by a leader, so you might want to expound, or reconsider.

For example, even if the entire startup team turned out to be dishonest and incompetent, weren't those clowns were hired and led by the founders? If so, the buck might stop with the founders, so maybe there's a better way to characterize and learn from the failure.

Definitely its my fault, I take the blame as a Founder. Hence, I am sharing my learning and not pointing fingers at someone else. There is a difference.
Your big mistake as a leader was trusting the people you were leading?
The word here here is "BLIND" trust.
I'm interested in "build an audience before building a product" - classically you would determine a target market/niche, build an MVP, and then attempt to market it, refine it with early customers. What kind of audience and conversations can you have without _any_ product? I've seen more than one startup fail by investing into marketing without having anything to market ready. But I'm curious in other experiences.
When I was building PitchGround, this is what I did. My target audience were mostly small business owners, agencies and marketers.

So I built a community around these people and start providing them with value contents, started doing some webinars, partners and collaboration.

Built an initial set of audience, and then launched PitchGround.

I will always ask questions in the community, which I would use as a way to validate my idea, get feedback and more.

This helped me connect with my audience better. When I launched PitchGround, I already had initial audience to begin with.

I continue doing the same till date.

Build Contents to Build Distribution > Invite users to our community> Create Brand Awareness.

That's the general flow I follow.

Should be „Tell hn“, also you might want to change the title to something including „Startup“ and „lessons learned“, then it might track better!
It’s not clear how this 200k was spent. In terms of team composition, age of your startup.

So some more context would be nice.

Almost all the funds went into operations, mostly developers.
The title “I lost over $200k” shortly followed by “do not trust your team” creates an implication that somehow they stole or swindled it from you, whether that was your intention or not. I think it would be good to add some clarity around those two key pieces of information. If all that happened was that you paid your team, then where does trust tie in with this story?
I will keep this short.

I started working on my SaaS somewhere in 2016, and the first thing I did was hired a CTO. The person had around 3+ years of experience.

Not only was I paying a good salary, but I was also paying for his rent. When we started building the initial set of products, the overall product development kept getting delayed. He said we needed more developers, so we hired around 6-7+ developers.

All the developers were reporting my ex-CTO, and as per our mutual understanding, I was not allowed to have any say in how the product will be developed, and he will be offered full support and resources.

I agreed to that.

Several months passed, and the product was not ready, but I was also losing cash quickly. I was already under heavy stress because there was no flow of income for the product.

I met someone during this time who told me that I should launch my product, and some people will even buy during the alpha stage. I found it skeptical but fell for that trap because I was desperate to bring in more cash to keep the funding going on for the project.

This is where I made another mistake because I unknowingly ended up overpromising, and my team failed to deliver a quality product.

Over 1.5 years passed, and we still needed a stable product.

Over two years went by, and I still did not have a stable product, and this is when my ex-CTO quit, and a few other developers quit along with him when I realized that he used my resources to build his product and shortly flew out of the country.

..I ended up hiring an outside dev team with the little more money I had to keep my promise to the customers, but that did not go well either.

I had no money left; I had to shut the project completely because I had deep into reds and had gotten into heavy clinical depression.

Ok, but how do I get the $200k to begin with? ;)
My previous startups (Non-SaaS) which I had just sold.
> We trusted our team blindly.

What did you trust them to do?

I feel like I hear this sentiment fairly often in the context of startup mistakes, and I wonder if people simply have unrealistic expectations.

Developers write software, and they usually aren’t magicians. They can’t always turn poor instructions or bad ideas into world class software.

I’ve worked on teams where the software we were building simply wasn’t great. It would never be great without some degree of pivoting and addressing a market more appropriately with better solutions. This was never a developer’s fault, though. In fact the team could be killing in terms of getting the work done that they were asked to. Even so it often came down on the software team to do better somehow. Numbers aren’t right, we need to optimize. We need to do the thing faster. Joey spent two weeks doing X, that should never happen!

But even if Joey did X in two minutes, customers still wouldn’t be very excited. Organic growth would remain poor. Trials would not convert very well.

Some developers have a good enough sense of the bigger picture, business, marketing, their own trade, etc. and they can provide feedback and insight that’ll potentially help change course. This is rarely true or even sufficient in my experience. Developers are only one of the cogs in the software machine.

Did you team lie about their abilities? Did they falsely report hours worked? I’m really curious where your trust went and how you were let down.

Wrong hiring, wrong delivery, wrong expectations. Everything, and every decision was just a mess but since I have learned a lot.

I am based out of India, and its hard to find good quality developers here that was another big learning lesson for me.

Everything here could be wrong or right depending on your individual situation.

No two companies are the same. Take advice (or insight) with a grain of salt.

Agreed. Always good to learn from other people, you never know at what point you might find which information helpful.
I don't have the experience you have so I don't know what I can add but I am a laborer. You are blaming your team here but a lot of what you are discussing are strategic errors. How is your team responsible? Their code was just very buggy and you trusted it to work?
Not blaming anyone other than myself. These are my learning lessons. As a CEO, every decision falls on me.
Our startup import export business lost about $5MM in one transaction over Covid when the Vietnamese mafia / corrupt factory decided to say YOLO and keep our cash.

Still haven’t recovered anything.

Can you hire a local debt collector?
I am so sorry to hear that.
Sorry to hear about that. We also bootstrapped our product and put about $60k in it. We built a product within a week and went out to sell. Having a technical founder(that doesn't take salary + someone you have known for years)is important. I understand the stress. Don't let them bring you down. You will come back stronger.
I’m sorry that happened - that was hard to read :(

In my opinion, in ANY relationship if someone demands full control of all communication, then they are trying to hide something.

You rightly stated it. This was a big learning lesson for me.
It's good general advice, though every tip of course has many counterexamples. I think the reality is startups are hard and also require luck.
I think what startups truly need is patience and a good mentor who have done it in the past. Most startup want to break things and move fast, burn capital. Instead, startups should move slow initially. Spend the first 5 years in the build phase and the next 5-years should be the growth phase.
It is good advice. Not fully agree with 5 tough. You need both, stability and UX. Cemeteries are full of stable products that were hard to use.
UI and UX shouldn't be the priority when building an MVP. People often focus on this instead of focusing on making the product stable and suffer. The moment one stands building the next iteration of the product, that's exactly the right time to focus on UI/UX alongside considering all the feedback from the users.
> 1. Do not trust people blindly, especially your team.

This was the number mistake my cofounder Oscar, and I made. We trusted our team blindly.

Care to elaborate?

I just edited the original post, and added a small backstory.
I like #7 very much. One should talk a lot about your concept before building it. Don’t worry about anyone stealing your idea.
Very true. One can copy the product/idea but cannot copy the process and distribution.
Also, people usually have their own unproven ideas that they would explore if they had time. Copying a proven idea (perhaps with small tweaks, etc.) is much more likely.
> We trusted our team blindly.

What happened?

Gut feeling: the work was outsourced / off-shored, and the team was a set of "outside" developers.
My ex-CTO used my resources to build something else. It was my fault that I trusted blindly.
It would be nice to know how you actually lost it, before diving into advice.
Most of the funds were lost into building the product.
All great advice, but maybe a bit overindexing and fighting the last war?
>fighting the last war? Why? What is different now?
For context, this one was about an email marketing tool.
Email Outreaching Tool to be more specific.
tl;dr: The author is sharing lessons learned from their experience building and launching a product. They advise against building an all-in-one tool and recommend testing and selling to at least 1,000 paying users before building more. They also suggest following a systematic launch cycle and validating ideas with paying customers before building. They also advise building an audience before building a product, splitting large visions into smaller projects, and focusing on the most requested feature by buyers in the early stages. They mention mistakes they made, including blindly trusting their team, which led to delays and stability issues, and ultimately, a loss of over $200,000 and depression. They also suggest the importance of QA during the early stage.

Good bot yes yes, I'm working on a news summary thingo for myself and this was in my open tabs.

How many did you hire?
I had a total developer team of roughly 12+ working full time in the office.
Your mistake is classic, you didn't have a product, then released a pile of shit and failed.

Build a solid working product before anything else, and get to at least parity with your 'competition' before releasing, and obviously test it.

It was definitely an expensive mistake but I wouldn't be where I am without learning from these mistakes.