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by vadym909 1249 days ago
So how does this compare with Tesla? Is what I’d want to know. These levels maybe ok for engineers . Consumers like me watch YouTube videos to tell how good a car is at self driving
4 comments

This is an eyes off autonomy level. So you can read a book while it does its thing. It however only works in a very narrow set of conditions.

Tesla doesn't have anything that's eyes off yet. You need to monitor the road. Tesla seems to be going for breadth first (FSD beta working everywhere and doing every manouver) and not depth (autonomy only for highway without changing lanes but reliable enough for eyes off)

If that's the case, then I think Mercedes chose the best option. It's when doing long drives on highways it's really useful to be able to read a book, work, play a board game with the passengers, talking in a focused way, nap etc.

It's most likely also much easier to make a car drive autonomously on highways versus on smaller roads, city roads, dirt roads etc.

It's not safe to nap, but you can do the rest of that.

They're promising 10 seconds of warning when the car wants you to take over.

I wonder how much of those 10 seconds would the car spend trying to notify the driver.

"Warning, take the wheel! Death imminent" takes a good 6 seconds to say :P

I think you should try actually saying that out loud. If I don't pause after the word "wheel", I can say that at a reasonable pace in two seconds.

Just "Warning, take the wheel!" gives you time to pause between each repetition and still say it 5 times.

the “hull alarm” sound from eve online would be perfect for this
Or the Red Alert from Star Trek
Which is roughly 250 meters of car travel time...
Much better than what Tesla offers since you can read a book, watch a movie, etc. Basically you don't have to pay attention. And Mercedes might be taking on legal liability for the system. They do that in Germany, not sure if they're doing that in the US.
Yes, as a manufacturer they (and everyone else in the chain of commerce) have strict liability for damages caused by product defects in the US, even with the US’s comparatively weak consumer protection laws.

I’d be surprised if that wasn’t the case in Germany, independent of any decision Mercedes would make beyond the one to make and sell the car.

> how does this compare with Tesla?

Mercedes appears to be indemnifying drivers when its tech is engaged. That's frankly the bigger first for me than SAE Level 3.

Might also be a problem because I am sure this is a calculated risk. We can pay X amount of law suites until our profit is impacted.

Didn't Ford do a similar thing with their explorer? They knew about a roll over issue but decided that it was finacilly cheaper to pay the lawsuits than recall the vehicle.

> sure this is a calculated risk

Sure hope it was! Point is they're putting their money where their mouth is. That's new.

But the level they're selling still requires that the driver be able to resume control when notified. So the "the car notified the driver to take over, disengaged, and shortly following that the driver crashed the car" narrative is still possible, even when the "shortly following that" might actually be "0.1s later". Sorry, our tech wasn't engaged at the time, you're actually the one at fault here.

Yes, the standard requires that the driver be given "a few seconds" to resume before the system disengages, but things can change dramatically in a few seconds at highway speeds.

At least for the German version, they notify the driver with 10s before they need to take over.
Such a narrative would be immediately called out. I really don't think that kind of trickery is something to worry about.

> things can change dramatically in a few seconds at highway speeds

In the immediate term, "brake enough not to hit things" is a very good default response and a computer should be better than a human at doing so.

> Such a narrative would be immediately called out.

Really?

Tesla has done exactly that - refusing liability because autopilot returned control to the driver in less than a second before the crash.[0]

No one called them out on it. There was a lot of hand wringing and feigned outrage but Musk's ass needs to be kissed and it ain't gonna kiss itself.

[0](https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2022/05/18/nhtsa...)

I don't see that in the link you provided? I think I heard of this crash, but I don't remember specifics, and it looks like Tesla didn't comment.

On a page of statistics they put together, they said "we count any crash in which Autopilot was deactivated within 5 seconds before impact", and that seems sufficient for a level 2 system.

This is a straw man. Mercedes gives you 10s to take over, for those 10s the car remains in controls & Mercedes liable.

Not good enough to take a nap but good enough to be texting or reading.

In their safety reports, Tesla considers a crash to be caused by AP if the crash happens within 5 seconds of disengagement.
It makes much more sense to me then the non-sense Tesla does. Tt is a use case which would be very valuable for me. In Germany they are now in principle allowed to offer this up to 130km/h on the motorway. They don't offer it yet, but that would already be a killer feature for me.