Ask HN: Contract employee telling employer about own company

[7hr0w2w2y9988]

Hi all, burner account to ask a question about contract employment.

I am a contract software developer and have been contracting with the same company full-time for a few years (let's call this "day job"). I recently started my own company in an unrelated field (concrete construction) and am curious if/when I should tell "day job" about the "concrete company". I have professional experience in both fields but have just been working most recently in "day job".

For the sake of this specific question let's ignore any non-compete, time allocation, or legal specifics. I am not seeking legal advice.

I enjoy working at "day job" but would eventually like to ween myself off "day job" and pursue "concrete company" full time. "Day job" has a culture of open communication and I feel "personally" comfortable with telling management about my engagements outside of work.

Is it "professionally" relevant to tell "day job" management about "concrete company" at all? If it is relevant, when should I tell "day job" about "concrete company"?

As mentioned above I feel "personally" comfortable with "day job" management but am aware it may not be in my best "professional" interest to say anything about "concrete company".

If/when I am able to pursue "concrete company" full-time it certainly makes sense to leave "day job".

Once again, I am not seeking legal advice, any opinions or thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[HWR_14]

As for timing, I think you should tell them when one or more conditions below are met:

1) You are okay (financially, emotionally, etc.) with that being your last day at "day job".

2) You plan to permanently move some hours from being available to not. For instance, you need to commit to 20 hour weeks when you were doing 40. I would give them some advance notice, whatever you would give them before accepting a new job somewhere.

3) You are going to need flexible timing. For instance, you know that a big client might demand you fly out. In this case, it's so they know to start adjusting their expectations of your availability and personally don't worry about you if you go dark.

Or, to summarize, I think you tell "day job" when "concrete company" will soon impact the work (quality, quantity, timing, etc.) and you are okay losing "day job".

Once you know more about the concrete company, I would reevaluate when/how to tell them. But that's at least six months away. Are you sharing exciting news? Something that failed? Just something going on in your life? Once you know more about what's happening, you can choose another disclosure time.

[7hr0w2w2y9988]

Thanks for the response, it's good to realize I need to say something at some point - just when/why being the question.

It could actually be much closer than 6 months away, I have all business and professional licensing (etc.) taken care of it's more a matter of when/how to begin taking "concrete company" clients. Of course there is still uncertainty but I'm able to accept clients now.

[HWR_14]

If you can take your first concrete company clients without impacting your day job, I recommend doing that first. I was thinking in six months you would reevaluate what to share outside of the narrow constraints of "hey day job, this will impact you directly soon".

Unless taking the first concrete client(s) means you are changing how your day job can interface with you.

[buffington]

Why do you feel like it's important to tell them?

When you hire landscapers, or a plumber, or handyman, do you think those contractors have some sort of duty to tell you about how they bartend in the evenings? I doubt it. I doubt you even care. It's really none of your business.

I was a freelancer once, and I'd frequently have a half dozen projects in progress for the half dozen companies that hired me. Sometimes I hired help. Sometimes I pulled all nighters. That I had other projects wasn't relevant. The work got done early or on time at or under budget.

Unless you have a contract that explicitly prohibits you from taking on other contract work you don't have to say anything.

Edit: it's also not relevant that you've been contracting for them for years. In the US, depending on the state, it's even illegal. Company's love hiring contractors because they're not employees, and don't have any of the rights an employee has. If they haven't hired you in those 2 years, you most certainly don't owe them an explanation when you end up leaving.

[7hr0w2w2y9988]

I appreciate the feedback, you bring up great points.

[buffington]

I just re-read your post more carefully and realized I missed a big part.

I missed the part about you wanting to shift towards working less at the day job.

That conversation could be as simple as "starting on [some future date] my availability will be reduced to [x hours] per week. Let's figure out how to make that work with the least amount of disruption."

I've had similar conversations. In one case, the company wasn't happy, and I figured out a way to hire someone to do the other gigs so that I could stay 100% on the project.

That's also an easy way to start a business with actual employees. In my case, I hired two people, and the company was delighted because now they had a trusted partner, didn't have to do payroll, worry about benefits, or anything, and still get what they wanted (for cheaper). Don't underestimate how much a company might be willing to do to help make your goals a reality so that they can further their own.

[icedchai]

Keep it to yourself until you are ready to leave. There is no advantage to disclosing your plans too early.

About 20 years ago, I made the mistake of telling a coworker about my outside contracting gigs. He told the "big boss" (VP) about it, because I was not responding the coworker's weekend calls. A few days later I get a talking to by the VP about my outside endeavors and am told to stop. Of course, this request was ignored, but it created some drama at the time.

[jesterson]

It depends on people.

I was in your shoes once, decided to share and regretted. The moment I did, employer was under constant stress of me leaving and it caused of lot of unpleasantries.

My take is - do your honest job and when you are ready to dedicate yourself to your own project, tell your employer. Obviously it shouldn't be like "I wouldn't be coming tomorrow", you need to give reasonable time margin to have a mutually nice departure

[yial]

I don’t feel like there’s enough information here to truly give actionable feedback.

If I understand correctly, you’re currently not an employee but an independent contractor for this company ? (Not a contract hire?)

You’ve started your own business in a totally unrelated field?

Regardless of the specifics, I will tell you my first knee-jerk in an organization is to worry about how that will impact the persons time/performance. Personally, I have a policy of supporting employees, even at times where it may not instantly help the organization. (I e, I knew an employee would be departing but still made sure we paid for a training program that was relevant to their existing and new role…)

The answer of what to share in this case sounds like it entirely hinges upon the institutional ethos, and your interpersonal relationships there.

By not sharing, and they find out, will that cause bridges to be burned?

Conversely, by sharing, will you burn bridges?

If you’re planning to ween yourself off of your day job, what does that look like, and how will you communicate that?

[7hr0w2w2y9988]

Thanks for the thoughts, you mention an important point about "impact to time/performance".

Agree this is a vague question but suppose I'm just trying to navigate the overlap of personal/professional relationships. "Day job" has offices in the location where I live and I go in a few days a month but ultimately work-from-home. I have some personal relationships with current "day job" coworkers and would like to burn as few bridges as possible. Additionally it's possible current coworkers may turn into clients (or referrals) at "concrete company" in the future.

If possible (barring layoff or unforeseen events) would like to work one day less at "day job" for every one day worked at "concrete company". I would communicate this by expressing my need to work less hours.

I am a contract hire through an agency, not independent.

[keiferski]

Just a small tip, but often these things are received better if you frame them as helping someone else and not as “going off on your own.”

So, if possible, describe your concrete company as being “your cousin’s/brother’s/friend’s company” (if such a person exists) that he needs help with one day a week, rather than the somewhat adversarial phrasing of, “I started a separate company and need to work there more and at this contracting job less.”

Whether dealing with employers or anyone else, it always helps to remember that they don’t have as much information about the situation as you do. Subsequently they will take whatever you give them and craft a story around it that may or may not be what’s actually happening.

[7hr0w2w2y9988]

Thanks for this perspective, this is helpful

[gymbeaux]

The difference between “management” and “nice management” is that nice management will be nice to you as they escort you out of the building and wish you a sincere “good luck” at the door. There is no such thing as loyalty blah blah blah etc. etc. et. Al.

[7hr0w2w2y9988]

Indeed, thanks for the reminder.

[vivegi]

It really depends on what the terms of your contract with $day_job is. For example, if it requires you be on call and get to a physical site for troubleshooting and if your $construction_job would get in the way of that in the normal course of business (eg: you are 100 miles away when you get a support call), then you need to figure out how you can reduce scope with your $day_job so that you can do justice to both.

It is about setting expectations.

I am assuming your $day_job employer would prefer to have you work 20 hours instead of current 40 hours instead of the 40 hours going to 0 hours (i.e., all or nothing).

[jameal]

I'm not sure if it's worth mentioning unless you have specific plans to end the contract in a certain period of time. Otherwise, I don't see it as relevant. You are a contractor and so they must understand they aren't your only client. Whether or not your contract stipulates, I would say it's just good business to give them a heads up when you have a good idea of when you might transition away, especially depending on how critical the work you're doing for them is.

[7hr0w2w2y9988]

Thanks for the response, this seems the most pragmatic approach.

[paulcole]

> when should I tell "day job" about "concrete company"?

Only you know the culture of the “day job” so how you proceed will vary:

1) Tell them when you’re excited about the “concrete company” and want to share good news

2) Tell them when you want something to change and you think the “concrete company” gives you leverage to make it happen

3) Tell them when you’re ready to quit

4) Tell them when you’re ready to be let go on the spot

Otherwise, why would you tell them?

[shultays]

  Ignore non-compete, time allocation, this, that

Well, if we are in an ideal world where your two full time jobs will have zero effect on each other then there is no need to inform them. But I doubt we are in an ideal world like that

[FlyingAvatar]

It's not clear why you are compelled to do this, or what benefit for either party would be achieved by doing it.

What do you hope will happen by telling your "day job" about your "concrete company"?

[7hr0w2w2y9988]

That's a good point, it is possibly best to not mention anything. I don't hope for anything in particular but find it "easier" for myself to just be honest with people when they ask what I'm doing.

[buffington]

If people ask and you feel like answering, tell them.

Otherwise it's not dishonest. There's nothing unethical about earning money while also delivering on the promises made as a contractor for someone else.

In case that's not obvious enough, consider this scenario:

You're an actual employee at the day job, not a contractor. On the weekends you like hitting up thrift shops looking for antiques which you then sell on eBay.

Is it dishonest not to talk about that to your employer?

Not talking about something doesn't mean automatically mean it's dishonest. Just like I'm not talking about what I just ate for dinner, not talking about additional ways you make money doesn't mean you're being unethical, immoral, unkind, or dishonest.

[DoreenMichele]

Being honest does not require you to tell everyone everything all the time. There aren't even enough hours in the day for that.

[bhaney]

Maybe I'm missing a euphemism here, but what's the incentive to tell them about your "concrete company" even if you feel comfortable doing so?

[7hr0w2w2y9988]

No euphemism intended. The only incentive is for clarity of communications if I am scaling down availability at "day job". You bring up the good point of "why mention anything at all".