[aliyfarah]

I'm not sure whats more incredible, that the US once again votes against any resolution seeking accountability for Israel's brutal occupation of the Palestinian territories or the Western media's mute response to it, especially in light of the current conflict in Europe. What reasonable justification could there possible be to vote against the ICJ to produce an opinion? Yet the US is currently seeking to take Russia to the ICJ for its actions in Ukraine.

The US & Western governments have absolutely zero moral standing at all to criticise Russia's illegal annexations of Ukrainian territories when they themselves turn a blind eye to their allies annexation of another neighbours territory (Golan Heights, Syria). Despite there being an existing UN resolution (497) rejecting the annexation, the US under Trump has formally recognised Golan Heights as US territory in 2017! [1].

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_t...

[schoolornot]

Wars have consequences. Syria didn't need to wage war and attack Israel from the Golan Heights. What reason is there to go back to pre-67 borders?

[aliyfarah]

If I understand you correctly, you’re saying if a country is attacked by another nation state, they’re entitled to seize the territories that was used to launch the attack if they win the war, like some kind of war loot?

[polski-g]

Uh, yes? That's obvious. If Russia loses is expect Ukraine to get some loot in return.

[aliyfarah]

Thanks for the clarification, I wasn’t aware annexing territories through war was still legal.

[davidf18]

Examples:

1. Alsace Loraine, the region between Germany and France now French, was German prior to WWI. 2. Upper Silesia, once part of Germany, became part of Poland after WWII. 13 million ethnic Germans were kicked out of Upper Silesia by Poland and fled to the reminder of Germany.

In 1948, Palestinian irregulars led by Amin al-Husseini, who had been The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who spied for he Nazis and was a guest of Hitler's in Berlin during WWII and who organized SS troops for he Nazis from Bosnia, as well as 5 Arab nations all sought to destroy Israel. They lost.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini

If the Germans can lose Alsace Loraine to France after WWI and lose Upper Silesia to Poland after WWII, then certainly the Palestinians, Egyptians, Syrians, and Jordanians should lose land for attacking Israel.

Israel left Gaza, but Hamas, elected by Palestinians took over Gaza and has been shooting missiles into Israel, most recently 10 days in May 2021, when they shot over 4,300 missiles towards Israeli cities. Israel's Iron Dome anti-missile system shot down most, but 12 Jews and Arabs died and 300 injured.

There cannot possibly be peace for the Palestinians while Hamas and not Fatah rules Gaza.

The best hope for The Palestinians is to extend The Abraham Accords -- the peace agreement of Israel with UAE, Bahrain, Morocco, Sudan to include Saudi Arabia and other Arab states. Israel was previously recognized by Egypt and Jordan.

[sndman]

> In 1948, Palestinian irregulars led by Amin al-Husseini, who had been The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who spied for he Nazis and was a guest of Hitler's in Berlin during WWII and who organized SS troops for he Nazis from Bosnia, as well as 5 Arab nations all sought to destroy Israel. They lost.

That narrative has been debunked by historians (both Arab and Israeli) for quite some time. I would encourage you to look at recent documentaries (Tantura (2022), Blue Box (2021), etc.). These run counter to the Christian Zionist narrative promulgated by a strong (and very well funded) Israeli lobby.

[weatherlite]

> The US & Western governments have absolutely zero moral standing at all to criticise Russia's illegal annexations of Ukrainian territories when they themselves turn a blind eye to their allies annexation of another neighbours territory

Kinda like Arab/Muslim countries denying Israel's right to exist due to "apartheid" when almost all of them practice different shades of apartheid. Iran is a good example of this but really this is prevalent in the whole area.

[dragonwriter]

> the US under Trump has formally recognised Golan Heights as US territory in 2017! [1].

No, it didn’t.

And, in any case, the Biden Administration, while simultaneously claiming it was not changing the policy under which Trump recognized Israeli control of Golan, has restated it as being that the US sees Israeli control as in Israel’s legitimate security interests given Syrian aggression and the aggressive bent of the current Syrian regime, but that a change in that situation would potentially result in a reassessment.

[aliyfarah]

That was a typo, I meant as Israeli territory.

That’s nonsense, international law is international law, there are no carve outs and loopholes for what US deems “legitimate security interests”. Russia used this exact same pretext to launch its war in Ukraine.

And the annexation far precedes the current regime by decades.

[dragonwriter]

> That’s nonsense, international law is international law

War is war. Occupation of enemy territory is routine and not prohibited by international law in war (the war itself is prohibited, to the extent that it is aggressive, but that's a problem for Syria in regard to the Syria-Israel war, not Israel.) Syria and Israel have been at war (launched by Syria and other Arab states, some of which have since made peace with Israel) since 1948.

> Russia used this exact same pretext to launch its war in Ukraine.

Ukraine and Russia were not at war before Russia, as you note, launched the war. So it is not the same.

Ignoring the existence of a continuous state of war, initiated by the supposedly-aggrieved party, produces ludicrous analysis.

[aliyfarah]

Why are you being dishonest? You know damn well Israel has no intention of ever relinquishing Golan Heights back to Syria, under any circumstance, whether peace is achieved with Syria or not, and their government has said as much whenever the topic comes up. [1]

> Ukraine and Russia were not at war before Russia, as you note, launched the war.

Says who? I think the Ukrainians would disagree with this assessment. They’ve been at war with Russia since they seized Crimea and sent their proxies to occupy parts of their country.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/26/world/middleeast/golan-he...

[weatherlite]

> Why are you being dishonest? You know damn well Israel has no intention of ever relinquishing Golan Heights back to Syria, under any circumstance, whether peace is achieved with Syria or not, and their government has said as much whenever the topic comes up.

Peace with Syria is such a bullshit concept (no chance in hell it happens) it really means nothing what an Israeli government says about it. As if the Assad regime is a partner for peace. Israel did give Sinai back to Egypt for peace so it's definitely possible in theory.

[dragonwriter]

> Why are you being dishonest?

I’m not, you are reading points you want to argue with into my posts.

> You know damn well Israel has no intention of ever relinquishing Golan Heights back to Syria,

I’ve said nothing about Israeli intentions, which have not been the subjecr of discussion. I’ve discussed only the US position, and particularly the conditions expressly attached to it by the Biden Administration.

> They’ve been at war with Russia since they seized Crimea

I mistakenly assumed you meant 2014 when you referred to Russia launching their war and occupied Ukrainian, since that was, in fact (and as you seem now to recognize), when Russia launched the current war of aggression against Ukraine and began occupying Ukrainian territory.

In any case, the problem with Russia’s occupation of territory in Ukraine remains that it is part of a war of aggression they are waging and not that, given the existence of war, it is illegal to occupy the opposing belligerent’s territory.