[ab-dm]

Yeah, the 2019 MBPs were absolute abominations. I spent 5k AUD on a fully kitted out MBP and performance wise it’s one of the worst computers I’ve ever owned.

I swore that would be the last Apple computer I ever bought, but then they released the M1s… and they are very good.

Would recommend getting an M1 if at all possible. There’s still time to ask Santa for one.

[stavros]

I recommend getting a Framework. It's probably not as good as an M1, but it'll last you more than two years, and if it doesn't, you can just change the CPU for a better one without having to throw all the other, perfectly good hardware away.

[JohnBooty]

    It's probably not as good as an M1, but it'll last you more than two years

I don't disagree with the other positive aspects of the Framework, but my goodness -- where are you getting this idea that a Mac lasts only two years?

6+ years is the norm for me on Macs.

[jes5199]

my macs absolutely start to degrade after about 18 months, and I try to keep them limping along for a few more months. I think it’s usually the battery crapping out that causes everything else to sort of overheat and suck

[interpol_p]

I had my 2012 MacBook Pro for 8 years, before giving it to my dad where it continues to be used (though under far less load than when I had it).

I did get the battery replaced once, it was free. The screen got replaced twice, also for free (the second time they just did it when replacing the battery because the person at the Apple Store noticed a slight wear on the edge anti-reflective coating)

[JohnBooty]

Well, mine admittedly are used primarily for duty so I suppose mine live a rather cushy life - particularly my batteries.

However, I don't think I know how decreased battery life would lead to overheating?

Certainly, dust inside the machine will lead to overheating (or at least, more fan activity) over time. Coats the heat sinks, etc. Perhaps that's it?

[CharlesW]

> I recommend getting a Framework. It's probably not as good as an M1, but it'll last you more than two years…

Macs have famously-long usable lives — my sister uses a 7-year-old iMac, for example. The latest macOS Ventura supports Macs made in 2017. I'd be very surprised to hear about people using 2021 Framework laptops as their daily driver in 2026.

[deathanatos]

… this literally doesn't mesh with reality.

I've had 3 MBPs, every single one has had at least one issue, well before 7 years, usually around 1.5 to 2. The first two had battery recalls, the middle one had cable-gate, the middle one's display was also very temperature sensitive (it would have glitched lines artifact on the screen if the ambient temperature wasn't near 70F), the later MBP suffers from keyboard-gate and from constant thermal throttling. (Likely because the vents are choked with dust, but MBP's user hostile design prevents me from opening it up and pushing air through it, which is likely all it requires. They hate the user so much they used screws worse than Torx. I think they're Pentalobe, but don't quote me.)

My current Magic Trackpad is also highly temperature sensitive. The "click" will lock up at high temp. (I.e., the trackpad will fight you, if you attempt to click, if the ambient temperature is warm.)

> I'd be very surprised to hear about people using 2021 Framework laptops as their daily driver in 2026.

I'm using a Lenovo Thinkpad at about that age. (It is a 2017 model, so, 5 years.) The biggest thing wrong with it at present is it requires AC power. (The battery connection is bad. It lived through two bike crashes, though, and I suspect that's a side effect of it. I should see if that's repairable, one of these days, but I've put up with that for the time, as with COVID, it doesn't really travel much anymore.) The TrackPoint™ is also wonky, but I think that's because sunlight has chemically hardened the nib like an old eraser. I have more nibs… somewhere. I should look for them or order more…

[CharlesW]

It would be absurd to claim that Macs don't fail or need servicing during their usable lives, but you seem to have been particularly unlucky in my experience.

> They hate the user so much they used screws worse than Torx. I think they're Pentalobe, but don't quote me.

Yes, Pentalobe: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/How+to+clean+your+MacBooks+fan+...

[stavros]

But you're in a thread about how the GP's Mac didn't last two years. I'm fairly sure I will be using my Framework laptop as my daily driver in 2026, maybe with one motherboard replacement. I just switched from my 2017 XPS, and I do development work. I gave it to my dad, who loves it and will probably hold on to it for another few years.

It's a bit odd to be saying this about pre-M1 Macs, as they were "just" Intel machines, same as everything else.

[ezfe]

>it'll last you more than two years

An M1 Mac should last double that, easily - so long as you don't underspec it. My family has multiple November 2020 M1 MacBook Airs that are still working good as the day we got them.

[kitsunesoba]

Frameworks are nice in theory but they still have a long way to go when it comes to heat, fan noise, and battery life based on what I've seen owners of them say.

[stavros]

Yeah, they are Intel in the end, which is tough on battery and heat. I hope that will get better if they switch to AMD.

[seanp2k2]

This is the biggest reason that I won’t get a Framework today. Give me a Ryzen with 8+ cores, 32GB DDR5, hopefully two m.2 slots, a full-size HDMI and USB-A port(s), 99wh battery because of TSA security theater, dedicated graphics, and some real heat sinks that can handle 200w+ so it doesn’t have to run the fans constantly or cook the touchpad. A 4:3 OLED with at least 4K resolution and 120hz refresh would be perfect on top. Ooh, and a rigid chassis that doesn’t flex like a noodle, and no RGB / gAmER tacky plastic junk all over. It’s sad that a package like this is very rare.

[stavros]

What are you talking about, it's not rare at all. My desktop is exactly like that.

[sirwhinesalot]

Your desktop has a 99wh battery and you carry it with you on the plane?

[ab-dm]

I'm definitely eying the Framework the day I don't need to do iOS development.