[stjohnswarts]

There will always be pacifists and isolationists. It's a tough position to defend given what happened in WW2 when the Allies didn't act immediately to invasion and genocide. We won't make that mistake again and I don't think it's hard to convince people of that who aren't idealistic pacifists and isolationists. People get emotional for a reason. There are lots of connection still to things like the Holocaust. Russians, and Putin, for sure need to be held at bay. It's too bad that people won't be more civil about discussions, but don't be expect to be treated as a savior.

[HKH2]

> There will always be pacifists and isolationists. It's a tough position to defend given what happened in WW2 when the Allies didn't act immediately to invasion and genocide.

The war in Vietnam and the wars in the Middle East are tough to defend.

[stjohnswarts]

I agree. The only middle east action I supported was hunting down bin Laden and freeing Kuwait. I had a couple of friends die unnecessarily and begged my brother not to join the armed forces and paid for his college tuition instead because I knew the same could happen to him. I don't think we should have been in Vietnam either. So we have something to agree with there. I do think we either pay now or pay a LOT MORE later when Russia beats Ukraine into submission if we stop supporting them (as NATO) by sheer size and resource superiority. That will include more Americans dying, because taking Ukraine will only encourage Russian land war ambitions in Europe. Ukraine has the will and inspiration, let's help them with all they need.