[jjav]

> All it requires is addition and subtraction, mostly, which we learn in second grade or whenever it is.

To be fair that's not quite true. For example credit cards go out of the way to make their interest and penalties algorithm obscure in order to try to lock people into paying interest forever.

[FrontierPsych]

I understand what you're saying. However, I pretty much learned all there was to learn about them in 15 minutes when I got my first one. I read about them. I'm not the smartest person in the world, by far. If I can easily learn now, then anyone can learn this stuff on their own, in 15 minutes. It is NOT complicated.

Getting information is exceptionally easy, and a LOT easier than when I got my first one. I knew from when I got my first credit card that I had to pay off the balance in full, every month. That using a credit card should be the exact same as using cash. You never buy anything unless you actually have the cash first. Then you can use the credit card and pay it off at the end of the month. It's so easy to understand. It doesn't matter about credit cards companies and their obfuscation. I didn't learn it from credit card companies. I just learned it because it was easy to learn. How difficult is it? Don't use a credit care unless you have the cash first. You pay it off in full and you don't pay interest, whatever level it is - .01% or 40% - it does not matter what the interest rates are, unless you don't pay on time.

And the problem is that people don't care. They think emotionally, and don't give a crap about future ramifications.

This is my favorite video that explains it all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3ZJKN_5M44

[jjav]

> It's so easy to understand.

But difficult to find. Do you know how to get out of paying interest on credit cards if you happen to be late for a payment once? Unless you've researched it, probably not. And it's unintuitive to have to research it because you'd think the answer is obvious (just pay it off) but it's not. Credit card companies count on people not noticing and then keep paying interest forever.

I know plenty smart people who just pay their credit card bill on autopay and don't examine every line item of the monthly statement. That seems crazy to me but it happens.

[RyanHamilton]

I would suggest it's not the ease of access to data nor the ability to understand it. It's the constant bombardment of advertising.

42% of Americanas are overweight, do you think it's because we don't have the data or it's not available? No, it's that within this capitilistic society its more profitable for companies to sell sugar with a high markup and copyright protection, than a piece of fruit. If a banana was the most profitable food item to sell, there would be less obesity. At what % obesity or taking out loans or addiction do we shift from blaming individuals to blaming the scenario and the players creating that scenario often for profit?

[gloryjulio]

If u treat ur credit card just like debit card u will never need to be end up in the situation in the first place. Don't spend what u didn't earn. And I use autopsy when I got my first credit card when I was still in school by just asking the bank for this service from instinct. I got plenty of discount and never needed paid interest once.

If u didn't earn it, it's not ur money. Don't spend what's not urs. I don't think that's hard to understand

[boppo1]

What about just paying the balance every month? 'Don't spend money that isn't in your pocket' seems pretty simple.

[P5fRxh5kUvp2th]

Then just use cash.

[FrontierPsych]

That is perfectly acceptable and the way to go.

There are reasons to use a credit card - you get purchase protection, for one. You also can build up credit if you want to buy a house. You need one to rent a car.

But really, while there might be other reasons, the only reason to get a good credit rating is to be able to buy a house. Everything else can be paid for in cash (check, online payment from your checking account, etc)

When you use a credit card, you should treat it exactly like cash. You should have cash in the bank before you purchase anything with a credit card, and then pay the entire credit card balance each and every month.

If someone has a problem with this and just can't do it, then they should not get a credit card at all. Credit cards are very dangerous technology if one can't control it. Just like fire - if you are not careful with it, you can set your house on fire.

[P5fRxh5kUvp2th]

Lets be clear here, by credit card I meant an actual credit card, not a debit card backed by a bank account, that is effectively cash.

You can do everything you listed without an actual CC, including rent a vehicle (I know, because I do it).

https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/mortgages/how-to-buy-house-n...

And that's kind of the silliness of credit score, you can game it by never actually using credit.

[FrontierPsych]

I don't disagree with what you say. I personally loathe credit cards and credit in general, and I personally don't use any type of credit. I pay for my cars in cash.

I don't think you get the same purchase protection with a debit card vs credit card.

As far as renting a vehicle, I've tried on a debit card and been denied. But that was quite a while ago so things could have changed, and I guess have as you have done it.

[P5fRxh5kUvp2th]

You still get protection from a debit card but the bank will cancel and re-issue since it's considered a point-of-sale. I've had to do it twice. Banks are required to do this due to consumer protection laws. I actually think the CC protection leads to more fraud, I've seen over and over people on this very website say things such as I'm being silly for how careful I am with my debit card because the CC company will just pay the fraud. I think it creates more risky behavior. It would be akin to wrecking into people out of spite because you have car insurance.

As for renting a vehicle, their requirements are usually a bit more stringent, things such as showing more documentation that I live where I say I live, they'll put a hold on a larger amount, but I've never been outright denied from renting a vehicle for having a debit card.

Of course, having said that, I was denied the last time I tried to rent a vehicle because they had started running credit checks and I have no credit. This despite the fact that I had been renting regularly from them for 7 or 8 years (a few times a year). Can you imagine thinking credit was a better proxy than your own records for determining someone's trustworthiness?

I've never liked rental car companies, they're all shitty in 1 way or another, but that for me was the last straw. It will be a cold day in hell before I ever rent a vehicle again.

Instead I went out and purchased a vehicle to do exactly what I was trying to do with the rental, I posted about it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34099429#34114741

[candiodari]

It's only that simple before you actually own any resources. Even just having a tenant will make things more complicated than that.

[djbebs]

You don't need to use credit cards.

[glandium]

I don't know how it is in the US, but in Japan, it's bonkers to the point that you can regularly hear/see ads on radio/TV for multiple lawyer offices that will help you recover money credit card companies have extorted you over the years.