[raydiatian]

To my mind it’s a bit of a trick question intended to bait Jobs into comparing apples to oranges. OpenDoc’s goal seems to be something of an early fediverse (shoot me if you disagree): a component framework that would allow applications to aggregate/compose/edit/display documents or subfragments thereof simultaneously from a federated network of sources, in an open standard that would allow anybody to roll their own UI. Java, completely different, is I suppose most comparable to this in the notion that Java is portable/run anywhere. Perhaps there was some equal footing between the two in the realm of licensing as well.

Jobs straight up dances around the question to basically say (in pretty unclear terms) “I don’t know how or want to sell OpenDoc because of my product philosophy, so we’re not gonna bother with it.”

However, instead of just bluntly stating ‘I don’t know how to sell OpenDoc’, Jobs goes on a self contradictory rant about asking his executive staff “what great things can we give our customers (why would the exec staff know)” rather than “what great tech can we sell”. They’re the same fucking question, unless you’re Steve Jobs, and decide that you can force people to work insane hours to build something that doesn’t exist and then take all the credit for it.

[IAmGraydon]

What an utterly strange reply. Did you actually watch the video? He danced around nothing. He simply stepped back one level and addressed the larger source of the angry comment from the audience member. He was very clear - all decisions of this scale will make some people upset. He admitted to what he didn't know, and then directly gave credit to his team and the people working under them for their hard work and long hours. Your entire reply is literally a fabrication.

[LarsDu88]

Fediverse?? I don't think so. OpenDoc is just a standard for creating documents with dynamic content. A competitor to OLEII. Basically covers a lot of what pdfs do, but can also be used to build basic apps.

Jobs fires the entire OpenDoc team and then goes off on a tangent on how java (a completely different thing - a virtual machine based programming language) will replace it. Perhaps Jobs was referring to NetBeans? In any case, the engineer was right to be pissed. Apple (and maybe Jobs) had spent years pulling devs onto their OpenDoc standard, then kill it abruptly effectively killing app developers overnight with a handwaving technically ignorant explanation on how Java could replace it.

Interestingly, years later Microsoft has killed OLE II, Oracle killed NetBeans, and we all moved to WebApps/JavaScript shit (yet somehow PDFs are still ubiquitous) so perhaps Jobs was right on a business level, but this is an example of his reality distortion field in effect.

[raydiatian]

Yeah but werent the files fragmentable across networks in an open standard that anybody can roll a UI for?

[jmull]

> They’re the same fucking question…

I really don’t see it that way. One is customer-focused and one is tech-focused.

I think Jobs is explaining that he killed OpenDoc because, regardless of how great the tech was, it didn’t lead to something great Apple could make for its customers.

[raydiatian]

Look don’t get me wrong. I understand Jobs is smart. He was a shrewd businessman and a hell of a product/advertising guy, I don’t discredit Apple’s achievements and his lasting impact on them. But the man was also a bullshit peddler and a reality distortion field, and sniffing his own fumes is what ultimately killed him in the end, poetic hubris and all.

> Start with what great benefits can we give our customer, not with what tech do our engineers have

* The Apple I was Jobs looking at Wozz’ creations and salivating dollar signs

* The whole mouse & windowed UI was stolen from Xerox (engineers)

* The iPod was born out response to existing CD player and MP3 design (engineering)

* The magnifier genie effect on the dock was literally how an engineer got his foot in the door at Apple (I’m an engineer use my software employ me)

* The keyboard on the iPhone is something that arose out of engineering

* Every single instance of Steve Jobs walking on stage and calling the latest CPU in the MacBook & family a “screamer”

* Every company Apple bought to build iLife

> something great Apple could make for its customers

Something great Apple could sell to its customers. Apple stuff is awesome but it’s all overpriced and defended by the mystique of Job’s persona.