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by rwbt 1278 days ago
I can't believe people compare Jobs with Musk. Jobs was so much better put together in public and seems like he can still be very coherent and persuasive even when angry (likely in this video) and insulted in public.
9 comments

I don’t think he was anywhere close to angry. It seems to me by his affect that he regards the audience member as simply not knowing any better about the big picture and what needed to be done to turn Apple around from its darkest days.
I agree, he doesn't look even remotely angry. The guy asking the question sure did, but Jobs looked pretty relaxed. And his response was amazing. No wonder he could create the Reality Distortion Field ;).
I posit that Jobs was angry but that his Realty Distortion Field was extremely effective this time.
He doesn’t strike me as angry as much as amused. This is probably not the first time he has been asked a very similar question. Maybe the first time he was annoyed, but what he actually does is explain the big picture, “why?” The question asker isn’t thinking big picture. He needs context. This person may never get it, but it is important for leaders to be able to convey direction.

It is the same struggle that Woz had regarding the Apple II. Woz was looking at all of the success the Apple II had and was still having and Jobs knew it would not last forever and he had to create the next thing and that that is where the company has to put time, money, and attention.

I think he was angry too, but that makes it all the more impressive.
That’s because back then your interaction with the public was maybe twice a year. Now it’s daily. Apples and oranges.
> back then your interaction with the public was maybe twice a year. Now it’s daily.

If you choose it to be. Plenty of CEOs are relatively recluse. For example, Apple’s, today.

I seriously doubt Steve Jobs would be.
> doubt Steve Jobs would be

Jobs was alive when Twitter went mainstream. He didn’t fall for the bait.

He was also much more mellow then. Jobs in 1984 with Twitter might have been a different story.
Agree. Jobs saved his public appearances/commentary for big events.
Sure he would. Jobs controlled his public persona and presence very carefully.

Being available to the world makes you the tail that wags the dog. It’s expensive to keep the mob happy. The big demagogues of our time aptly demonstrate that.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, is it possible that’s your impression because his carefully crafted public persona is more familiar to you than his famous-but-somewhat-posthumously-so privateness?
I love Apple products and have since childhood, and I have little doubt Jobs’ personality, thinking, and talent, are major factors in what I liked about Apple then and do now. And I detest Musk.

That disclosure out of the way… Jobs was notoriously quick to anger, imperious in his internal role, very selectively rational, and generally… well, often kind of a jerk. I know all of that can overlap with coherence and persuasion, in fact in a cynical sense it could be argued it was part of his persuasive strength.

But… this isn’t the most infamous, nor probably the most convincing, example, it’s just the one that always resurfaces in my own memory: dude chucked a camera at some poor soul whose job it was to hand it to him on stage, because he was frustrated by a technical glitch during a presentation. That’s how not “put together” he could be in one of the more publicly visible tech events of the time: he did violence to a person who was helping him with tons of people watching because of something which wasn’t that person’s fault.

I’m not saying Musk is any better, but I’m also not prepared to pretend that Jobs wasn’t an epic asshole.

That “poor soul” was a senior director of marketing, not some minimum wage assistant. And violence, a bit hyperbolic, it was an underhanded toss - no one calls that “chucking” where I’m from at least. Sure he had a temper but this is painting a misleading picture of that episode.
You know what, I looked it up, you’re right, and this is an incredibly poor example of the point. I will stop using this example of Steve Jobs being an asshole.
> no one calls that “chucking” where I’m from at least

not disagreeing in substance, but a couple of quibbles: that absolutely does qualify as chucking--it's the way woodchucks chuck--but it does not qualify as chucking at someone; so as an underhand toss, it wasn't underhanded

This is the best kind of pedantry: agreeing in spirit with the intent but clarifying words used to express it.
> but I’m also not prepared to pretend that Jobs wasn’t an epic asshole.

I think the video linked to (Steve Jobs Insult Response) is honestly one of Steve's finest moments (with regard to dealing with people that is). But to bolster your point, there are of course an overwhelming number of stories that capture Steve's less stellar moments.

The one where Gassee disses him for bad behavior is funny; wonder if it really happened.

https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Handicapped.txt

Gassée was always quick with a burn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lie3C2kjCjo
> can't believe people compare Jobs with Musk

Go back to Elon learning, during an interview, the things Buzz Aldrin—a childhood hero of his—said about SpaceX. I believe Musk once had the progenitors of this sense of reflection and maturity. Instead, he’s degraded where Steve Jobs learned.

> Go back to Elon learning, during an interview, the things Buzz Aldrin—a childhood hero of his—said about SpaceX.

Is there a typo here? Can someone explain what this means in slightly different words? I've love to hear what Buzz Aldrin has to say about Elon Musk, but I just can't parse this phrase.

Here's a rewording of the phrase:

Go back to the time Elon learned about the things Buzz Aldrin—his childhood hero—said about SpaceX

I think this is the interview in question: https://youtu.be/23GzpbNUyI4?t=726

That was Neil Armstrong and Gene Cernan, not Buzz Aldrin.
Native speaker here!

Parsing backwards:

Buzz Aldrin said (implicitly negative) things about SpaceX.

Elon heard the comments he made for the first time during a recorded interview.

Elon (implicitly) reacted in a negative/foolish way during the interview, because he idolised Aldrin as a child and was upset to hear these comments.

> Elon (implicitly) reacted in a negative/foolish

He just looks very sad, to the point of fighting back tears. What was the negative/foolish part? (was it a different interview than the 60 minutes one linked above?)

Nope, that was just my assumption, given how Elon usually handles these things. Sad to hear that.
Thank you. Sorry HN.
I was just trying to understand. No reason for apologizing, communication problems happen :)
>I can't believe people compare Jobs with Musk.

I know it is not a very nice thing to say but you may be surprised to learn, Most people cant really do comparison.

Steve Jobs was a tyrant being closed doors and would often cry in meetings. This sounds very similar to Musk.

Musk is undoubtably a genius, you can’t discount the success that Tesla and SpaceX have had. He’s just extremely heavy-handed and capricious. I heard from someone at Tesla that they loathe being in meetings with him because he will literally fire people on the spot. That type of arrogance did play during the era of tesla going to $1 trillion but now that it’s falling back to earth I wonder how much people will tolerate his arrogance and temper tantrums.

Steve Jobs was smart enough to not be dumb in public. That is a very, very important factor.
I haven’t seen Musk have a temper tantrum in public.
Calling someone a pedophile on Twitter withot evidence qualifies as a temper tantrum in my book.
Elon’s ego fluffers are clearly out tonight, but don’t be dissuaded. Your perception of reality is right.
I find that difficult to imagine, but a recent one (over the past week) registered several times on the HN front page.
mike lindell is a genius, you cant discount the success he has had with my pillow
I wouldn't stretch as far as calling Musk a genius - he's someone with a lot of business acumen, and understands how to use social media effectively to get what he wants (much like Trump), and has deep connections to make his ventures successful.

SpaceX, Tesla etc would not be where they are now without all the funding Musk was able to secure and source from governments (grants, tax breaks, investments etc), and then investors - that's probably his biggest contribution.

If you haven't heard Musk talk IN DEPTH about rocketry, rocket engines, etc, then you should definitely watch the videos (linked below). For all his flaws (which are many), Musk does really understand his companies to a depth I've never before seen with a CEO. I've worked with many VPs and Executive team folk and I've never met someone that can have such low-level discussions about how their tech works, the product design, tactics and strategy etc. Also, when you see Elon talk about rockets you also get to see passion and happiness he gets from discussing these topics. I personally wish he had never used social media in the first place as it clearly triggers the worst parts inside him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t705r8ICkRw&ab_channel=Every...

its such ridiculous grading on a curve. dan gelbart is an example of a billionaire ceo who shows a genuine mastery of machining fabrication and protyping. just watch him on youtube. musk is such a dilletante by comparison. his primary skill is as a financier.
Both Musk and Jobs are admired by the same kind of people. And for the reasons.
There’s no interesting comparison to be made, really. Both are rich CEOs, I guess. That’s it.
I think some people are drawn to this video because they want others to think that Jobs made big changes that were painful and he was very successful, therefore when Musk makes big changes that are painful he will also be successful. I disagree and think the similarities are only superficial, but I can see why some might think that.
I also disagree with this. This implicitly assumes that anyone who makes big changes that are painful will be successful. But this is manifestly untrue.

A big difference in what Jobs did and what Musk is doing is that Musk has fired people at Twitter pretty much indiscriminately. Jobs had a clear idea for a working product line. He brought NeXTSTEP with him to Apple, along with NeXT engineers. And he kept those teams that worked in critical areas.

i think elon has tried to emulate the superficial aspects of steve jobs presentation style, albeit very unconvincingly
He can hardly finish a sentence. Jobs was a master presenter. Good luck for him.
Much better put together? The guy who publicly threw away his life and then used his considerable funds to cheat the line of transplants and then died anyway. Musk is definitely not as well spoken as Jobs, but Jobs has Musk beat on the level of insanity by that alone.