[bobosha]

>The sad fact is that we have enough software developers in America to fully meet all of every American companies technical needs; The problem is that these companies don't want to meet the market demands of that labor pool by paying what that market is asking to keep that sustainable, so they want to import people who they can abuse to temporarily lower labor prices for them.

This is a bogus self-serving argument that is offered by many entitled "American programmers" who want wage hyperinflation. Tech workers are among the highest paid professions anywhere, and still people like you complain about wage suppression, ha! How self-serving & entitled of you.

There is 100%+ employment in tech, and the people "looking for work" you speak of, wouldn't even pass a basic programming test and unemployable IMO.

[matthewmacleod]

In my view you are both wrong for different reasons.

There are not “enough software developers in America to fully meet all of every American companies technical needs”. There is virtually no unemployment among competent software developers and almost every team I have ever talked to consistently struggles to hire. It doesn’t pass the sniff test, as there are relatively few of these workers in any case.

Equally, workers are absolutely entitled to complain about companies abusing people in precarious positions—such as H1B visa holders—to reduce costs. Certain orgs are notorious for this. It is not “entitled” to think that workers should be paid the market rate for their work, and the reality is that software developers are highly-paid in part because their skills are hard to come by and drive significant financial benefit (i.e. they are worth it). You don’t need to put the effort in to defend companies who have famously colluded to suppress wages!

Is the real problem not the existence of a silly visa system in the first place? If you want workers, then allow them to enter the country and compete freely at market wages for roles - without making them so subject to the whims of their sponsoring employer. That system is basically designed to facilitate abuse.

[bobosha]

ty. I think you made my point more eloquently than I could. Agreed that h1b has _several_ flaws, but then so has SS, Medicare/Medicaid, VA etc. Those aren't shining examples of good governance either. All its flaws notwithstanding, quite a lot of good comes out of h1b - the number of foreign born CEOs and entrepreneurs in tech is telling. I'd go so far as to say, no other program has done more to keep America competitive in tech than h1b.

There's widespread support in business for reform. Many of us are supportive of a points scheme for visas using salary indexed to COL, academic credentials etc as a better filter. Unfortunately congressional gridlock makes it extremely unlikely.

My objection was to the smug, sneery condescension about "cheap labor","wage suppression","no shortage if you pay enough". IMO it's driven in large part by racism and nativism coupled with self-serving avarice (delicious irony there) - not "wage concerns" or "h1b worker exploitation". That's the BS cover story!

[ipaddr]

Perhaps as a: MIT CSAIL Alum, AI+Machine Vision researcher passionate about using technology for societal good.

Not everyone is an MIT Alum and full employment is a dream that could only come from the halls of MIT