[DrThunder]

Habit. Stop looking for motivation to drive you. Sometimes it will and sometimes it won't. There's a pretty common saying that motivation is a result of doing stuff. You just do it whether you want to or not. I know that's simplistic but that's really all there is to it. Easy to understand but harder to implement. It helps me not to think too far into the future and break stuff down into daily goals so I don't get overwhelmed.

No one is motivated to do stuff 100% of the time. Do you think superstar athletes like getting in the weight room and doing cardio everyday?

I think a lot of the problem is that modern life allows people to have this attitude when it wasn't an option in the past. No one used to care about whether they wanted to do stuff because if they didn't they would die.

"Oh I don't feel like getting firewood or hunting today" - Dead Caveman

[MyKungFuIsGood]

In this same theme, I've found three things that really help solidify a wanted habit that is spawned from motivation. Removing the personal option of choice, removing as many small obstacles as possible before the thing that you need motivation for, and taking baby steps.

What Removal of choice in practice looks like is going to the gym in the morning isn't a choice, it's just what I have to do. In the same way that going to work on the weekdays isn't a choice, it's what you have to do.

As for removing small obstacles, getting to the gym early in the morning is hard. When you wake up early it is extremely tempting to stay in the comfort of you bed or scroll social media while you have your coffee, or [insert easy dopamine hit here]. I have my gym bag packed, my coffee machine set so all I have to do is hit the brew button, my whey/creatine powder is in the mixer bottle, and (recently) I've cleaned the snow off my car, in the evening. This is so when I wake up weak willed, it's as easy as I can possibly make it to follow through on my intention.

For baby steps, when instituting a new habit from motivation, make it easy, like really really easy. The gym habit is a new one for me this year. I started building it by simply setting the intention that I would show up to the gym for a couple minutes. No pressure to work out, no pressure to get fit, the only requirement on myself was that I spend 2 minutes at the gym on my 'workout' days. This helped build and lock in a routine and notice the small obstacles that I needed to overcome to get to the gym. As the habit of going got locked in, it became trivially easy to be like well I guess while I'm here I'll do some curls.

[pm215]

On the other hand that caveman wasn't doing the the same thing at the same pace of work every day of the year, and they had a much clearer idea of why the things they were doing were worth the effort they were putting in...

[chitowneats]

This comment is such a great example of the modern human brain worms GP is describing. Cavemen didn't have a damn clue about anything other than survival.

Imagine not understanding basic things about your environment like: why wife die of sick, why sky open and pour ocean, etc.

Now imagine how terrifying and demotivating that type of thing must have been.

[DrThunder]

You can apply it to essentially all humans pre industrial revolution as well.

The point is that until very recently no one had the luxury of sitting around and worrying whether they felt "motivated" to do things. They just did them because they didn't have a choice if they wanted to survive.

"OH I feel like shit and don't want to get off my ass today" ok.... it doesn't really matter. Still need wood for heat, need to cook, need to feed my pigs etc.

Yeah you can get away with doing essentially nothing now and still survive but people need to change their mindset and form a habit that doing nothing long term results in a very unhealthy lifestyle. Simplify your day into just doing SOMETHING and remove that anxiety of having too many choices. Pick one and go.

[mumer101]

no people had good understanding, or consistent explanations. Thunder = angry God. Sickness/diseases natural things but curable with leaves and herbs sometimes. Rain another natural gift from God. Also you seek answers to question that are new, not something you grew up with. Did you when woke up question why air is less dense than water? No! Does it bother you why sunlight is so bright? no it's just a matter of fact.

[aaronax]

Presumably you are referring to work here, as the worth of anything you do in your personal life should be quite evident.

You can find rewarding work.

[jstx1]

> You can find rewarding work.

Seems like a big assumption. I haven't yet, and I keep trying.

[Mezzie]

And that there's a place for everyone in the current economic model.

I know from experience that I'm happiest doing 2-3 part time jobs. But in order to get things like benefits, job security, a salary over 15/hr, etc. I'm stuck with a single place of full time employment. I try to find jobs that let me do a bunch of different things, but it's not really the same.

Being a generalist sucks.

[baremetal]

Being a generalist can work if you are in the right market[s] and you own your own business[es].

[mumer101]

I have this suspicion that often people who thrive at "school" suck at doing things, their whole life they are getting programmed to:

a) do things for an quick and clear reward

b) always be in extremely well defined rules (when semester starts you see how people obsess over edge cases and their impact on grade with a professor)

c) always do it for pleasing someone else and get their admiration (teachers, parents, peers, etc)

d) only be motivated by fear

In a way the better you adapt to that system the more 'slave' minded you become and only do what is asked, when rewarded, given clear instructions and a threat of leashes is near. Often Top students in HS end up mediocre at college and life.

Lack of motivation plagues them all life as they have no clear guidelines, external threats, or third person providing validation.

[kaashif]

I think being motivated by fear of being viewed as a failure can be very powerful and last far beyond school.

It's unhealthy, but I get a great deal of satisfaction when I think about others seeing me as a success. And a great deal of stress when things aren't going right, which has been a motivator for turning things around.

If at some point I fail and can't recover, my mental health would probably decline significantly.

[deterministic]

Not my experience at all. I did really well in school and yet have a lot of drive to peruse my own projects and goals. I don’t need anybody to force me to do it.

[Fire-Dragon-DoL]

Mhhh I always assumed school is the most delayed reward. 20 years to get a well paying job?

[peruvian]

School, at least in the US, gives you plenty of quick rewards. In my high school, we got report cards every other week. On top of that, you get homework and quiz results back quickly as well.

While the real reward is admission to a good college, you get the feeling that you are progressing towards that goal often.

[Fire-Dragon-DoL]

Mh, I wonder if it's my perception that's skewed. Like, ranks are not a reward at all, I expect something I enjoy, instead the rank was literally a "you must get a good rank or you are done for your life" kind of thing. It was no reward at all, it was _expectation_.

[mumer101]

if you asked 16 years old me why are you studying so hard, the lie would be the whole story so i can do get into college get a job etc... truth would have been so i can look good and be admired

[CogitoCogito]

I'm 37 and I'd say this is _still_ one my largest motivators.

[Fire-Dragon-DoL]

I mean, sure, but we get told the lie the whole time

[Rzor]

And to more on this I highly recommend this research if anyone's interested: https://behaviordesign.stanford.edu/resources/fogg-behavior-...

The author has a book called Tiny Habits. It's short, but packs a bunch. Essentially: (B)ehavior = (M)otivation + (A)bility + (P)rompt.

Edit: Direct link to the paper: https://drive.google.com/file/d/19LYba4fuceGM3KhqxTXByV4msmb...

[danShumway]

On the other hand, the darker side of flight/fight/stress responses being such a hugely effective motivator is that long-term over-reliance on them can lead you to burnout as you age and will take years off of your lifespan.

Stress can be a healthy motivator, but it's generally unhealthy for stress and immediate survival to be your only motivator. Be very careful about over-relying on stress. Besides the physical effects, stress can also sometimes lead to sacrificing long-term habits that aren't immediately necessary but that are still important to build (exercise, career building, relationships, sleep, etc...).

There are two pieces of advice here that (in my opinion) are kind of contradictory:

- form habits (good advice)

- "no one used to care about whether they wanted to do stuff because if they didn't they would die" (this is a recipe for burnout, regardless of how well it might work for someone in the short term).

A good habit usually should not be stressful, it shouldn't be something you do out of persistent fear. There is something to the idea of having stimuli/motivators around chores that are difficult to ignore, lots of people benefit from that kind of setup. But... not because you're worried about dying if you don't do them.

[jasonladuke0311]

Yes. If parent wants more in-depth musing, I highly recommend The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg [0]. It details how and why habits are formed and how to create your own. Genuinely a life-changing book for some people.

[0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12609433-the-power-of-ha...

[HatchedLake721]

Agree with everything, the only thing I’d swap the word “habit” for “discipline”.

I have issues building habits where people say do it for 21 days and then you’ll start loving and “will do it for the rest of your life”.

No you won’t.

Sometimes you won’t feel like doing it, even if it’s your habit.

What keeps you going is discipline.

Regardless of the external circumstances, whether it’s cold, raining, you didn’t sleep enough or you feel sad, you still do it.

That’s the basis behind the 75 Hard too. I say it’s not a fitness program, it’s a mental toughness program, you do what you agreed to do.

[DrThunder]

Yeah I can agree discipline might be a better choice of words. I guess in my mind a solid habit comes from discipline.

I can't say I've been able to apply it to everything in my life. Certain things like working out and meditating I've finally been able to make it something that's not a choice. It's pretty much like drinking water or taking a dump. It just has to be done now.

[PartiallyTyped]

> Do you think superstar athletes like getting in the weight room and doing cardio everyday?

Cardio eventually feels good. The physical response to working out is endorphines which make our monkey brains feel good after.

Mentally exhausting work on the other hand is far more delayed than that.

> "Oh I don't feel like getting firewood or hunting today" - Dead Caveman

Both of those have both immediate and delayed rewards.