[teux]

> Two, they look more like models than software engineers. Completely bullshit.

Can I push back against this? It’s toxic as fuck. Being a woman in tech blows. You can’t be pretty or you’re considered incompetent and shallow. You can’t be ugly or you’re treated poorly for that.

It’s a loose-loose.

What does a software engineer look like to you, then?

[edanm]

Despite you getting some bad feedback on this comment, I think you're right and I bumped on that phrase too.

This reminds me of a billboard campaign to hire developers that ran a few years ago, and featured a few SEs, including one woman considered attractive. A lot of people said things along the lines of "this isn't what a real SE looks like", along with many... less nice things. Of course, she actually was a full stack engineer at that company. This prompted her to start a campaign (#ILookLikeAnEngineer). For more details read her blog: https://medium.com/the-coffeelicious/you-may-have-seen-my-fa...

Note to some commenters: I'm not saying that you can't tell a fake profile from a not fake profile. I'm saying that a sentence like "they look more like models than software engineers" is implicitly hinting that software engineers are not attractive females. That's the objection that I believe teux was raising, and it's a valid one.

[BlargMcLarg]

You and GP both need to take a step back and consider the context since both of you seem to conveniently forget one very important thing: why would anyone get harrassed by software developers on LinkedIn as just another workerbee? Now multiply that by whatever factor you believe a software developer is a gorgeous woman. Maybe now it makes sense why people are skeptical.

With your line of reasoning, people would be defending phishing emails because "some representatives have bad grammar skills". Think of how lubricous that would be in a discussion on phishing.

[edanm]

To clarify, I totally understand the context.

I'm specifically saying that saying a phrase like "they don't look like software developers" just because they're good looking women is in itself a bad (and false!) meme to circulate, which in itself is a bad thing, regardless of context.

[teux]

Yeah. That’s all I was trying to say. I’m not speaking about anything related to shitty recruiters, how hard it is to be a man online (??), or how much it sucks to be the target of sex-based scams.

Just. Saying it sucks to be a woman in tech and statements and sentiments like this are part of the reason why.

Still no one answered my question: “What does a software engineer look like then?”

I think it was a combination of me being not explicit enough and touching on an obviously sore subject for others. But I don’t have the energy to unravel it or debate.

[3pt14159]

Are you a woman in tech?

The reason that I ask is that your account is pretty new and this seems a little bit like stowing up discord on social media.

Regardless. There is a difference between a beautiful woman that can code (these are actually getting more and more prevalent) and the trashy looking profile picture that all of us instantly know is some kind of spammer or scammer in our DMs or our inbox.

The fact that they're portrayed as woman has more to do with the loneliness of many men in tech than anything else and pretending that this type of behaviour is non-existent is childish when it's clear that places like LinkedIn and Twitter could do a lot more to detect it and prevent it.

[teux]

Yes? I just migrated from reddit.

Read my comments. I have been discussing my job in Europe and my work with vectorised optimisations.

Seems like a lot of work for sowing discord, but you make the call.

[3pt14159]

Well I'll take you at your word then. Be aware that new accounts or accounts without much comment history are treated with more suspicion on HN when they discuss hot button issues like gender or politics.

> It’s toxic as fuck. Being a woman in tech blows. You can’t be pretty or you’re considered incompetent and shallow. You can’t be ugly or you’re treated poorly for that.

One of the best programmers I've ever worked with was a woman. Former Google. I'd prefer not to discuss how attractive she is because it doesn't matter to me. I'm sorry you're having a rough time in Scandinavia and, from your comment history, formerly the USA. I've worked with non-aggressive teams from different places, but I've also observed women being mistreated in both Canada and the USA as well.

That said, I've seen ASD men mistreated as well. Unfortunately there are jerks out there and we can all try to do better.

[mnky9800n]

can i push back on that? as a guy, girls texting you randomly on any platform is almost always a bot, scammer, <insert something other than what it appears to be>.

i completely agree with you, a software engineer looks like a person who writes software. but that doesn't change the online experience that i have had as a man, which is namely, if a girl texts you, she's not a girl, and she certainly isn't your friend.

[BlargMcLarg]

The average woman is fairly well treated and not at all like the average LinkedIn stalker, let alone a model. You're trying to bridge two related but different contexts

[xwolfi]

ok but do you really need to look like a model on Linkedin ? You can be pretty, but is being ultra sexy really that important there ?

He didnt say they were random girls like we meet every day, he said model. When men contact me on linkedin for insurance products and they look like Calvin Klein underweare models, Im like "hum" too.

[markus_zhang]

Yes you can push back.

Of course woman in tech can be pretty. Grace Hopper is 100x more pretty than any model in the world.

[commandlinefan]

> You can’t be pretty or you’re considered incompetent and shallow

That's not a gendered stereotype, though, that's all technology people.