[Elidrake42]

A bit off topic; I of course understand that I'm an odd situation and not representative of the broader trend at play here... But moving into remote work inspired my partner and I to move into Manhattan from the sprawling car driven nightmare that was Phoenix.

Tiny little studio, but we've never been particularly materialistic, a murphy bed massively opens up the space, and no office to go into means once the day is over we're a step or short train ride to really anything we could imagine doing without having to worry about gas/Uber pricing. Went for a lovely bike ride early in the morning, the city is practically dead at ~4:30AM. Whole Foods is just as expensive as it was in the suburbs of Phoenix, and our local Trader Joes is cheaper than the Fry's (Kroger) was out West. Then you have the street produce that absolutely slaughters any prices I've seen anywhere.

It's a little bit of work to find reasonably priced restaurants, admittedly, but there still are 6-10$ plates out here if you have the patience to look. I do miss In-N-Out.

Though really I think this is an indictment of the current state of Phoenix more than it is a reason to praise Manhattan... I'm sure any of the many lovely "flyover" states in-between would have much more livable pricing, and the drive cross-country showed that Arizona has some of the highest gas prices in the country.

Plan to move onto Wisconsin after a couple years, another plus of working remote (with companies that are very open/willing to support us in that choice).

[deltarholamda]

You don't mention children, but that's an important data point. Your small apartment is suddenly smaller, and if you want to be in a good public school district, your rent options are now a lot more expensive. Or you can go private, and suddenly discover brand new ways to have no money.

A lot of singles and DINKs like this sort of arrangement, but a community that has few or no children is dying, if not already dead.

Mobility is less of an option once you have children embedded into the community. Moving across the country is exciting and fun, until it means uprooting your kids. That's how a city, town, neighborhood maintains stability. Transients are not a long-term solution.

Cities chased out families with ever-increasing costs. This worked okay as long as business needed to be conducted in cities. That's no longer the case, turning our urban centers into glorified roadside RV parks.

[deeptote]

I'd love to move to NY but yeah, I have kids now and moving them from the acreage and amazing school district we have now is just not really an option.

[throwayyy479087]

I see a LOT of people moving to NYC for this reason. Not Midtown or the Financial District, mind you - the UES, UWS, Williamsburg, etc. I did it. I don't commute but am so much happier here than with more space in suburbia.

[Terretta]

> Not Midtown or the Financial District, mind you...

Ha!

Imagine if, as in EU cities, one could live above one's shops and workplaces, with no car needed -- and no transit as part of the daily routine!

Very few places in USA is this feasible at scale, NYC being one of the few. Even there, when I preferred to walk (no transit) to work which required me to live in Midtown, I was looked at like I was nuts -- why wouldn't you live in Brooklyn or Upper West Side or Chelsea or East Village?

Because my aim was to not spend life on a commute.

Love that you don't commute, shows it's possible. It's also possible to have one of those Midtown or Financial District jobs and not commute at all day-to-day. Then when you want a different neighborhood for variety, use transit.

PS. Side benefit in a town where square meter residential space is so limited: no home office necessary, you can just "step into your office" downstairs or across the street.

PPS. If you're one of the "avoid Midtown" folks but like to wander around and browse food, check out the pedestrian corridor called "6 1/2 Ave" very Harry Potter style. The southern end starts at ~ 50th and runs up to ~ 56th. There is an Asian street food concourse between 50th and 51st that's new, another food hall at 52nd, and an amazing French bistro up between 53rd and 54th. The food halls essentially let you try food cart experience year round or in the rain.

[kibwen]

Same perspective here. Even as a rural-boy-turned-inveterate-urbanite, I'm happy that people who don't want to live in the city are decreasingly forced to live in the city due to their jobs. There are plenty of people out there like me who were looking to escape to the city but who were stymied by all the people living in the city who wanted to escape to the country. I just prefer density and walkability/bikeability.

[bombcar]

I think the more people are living where they want to and not where they're forced to the happier people will be in general.

Especially as the "city" fills up with "city people" they hopefully will stop voting so strongly against "city".

[Ancapistani]

> Especially as the "city" fills up with "city people" they hopefully will stop voting so strongly against "city".

It'll be interesting to see if the obverse is true.

My suspicion is that the US will continue to self-select along political and social lines, as it seems to have been doing since ~2000.

[bombcar]

I was more referring to "NIMBYism" or suburbification than purely political parties; both deep red and deep blue "cities" vote heavily NIMBY when they get the chance, and some of that may be that many of the people living in said cities wish they could live more suburbanly or more rurally, and try to make the city as much as such.

[Gunnerhead]

Same thing here, people were shocked when I moved from Colorado to Manhattan’s UES to work remote, but it’s been the best decision I’ve ever made.

[yieldcrv]

Once you realize that privilege means being able to afford prioritizing movement and your health, you'll take the socioeconomic exemption that walkable cities provide

Nearly everything about the advertised American way is the opposite, so just unsubscribe and enjoy the few areas of the US that cater to it, they are more expensive for rational reasons

[overthemoon]

Wisconsin rocks. Moved back here after almost 20 years in/around Chicago. I love Chicago dearly, but I'm glad we made the choice.

[merman]

Sorry your Phoenix experience was so bad for you. It's great out here though. Don't know why the top comment is dumping on Phx as if it doesn't have a great road system.

Our grocery options will improve as soon as the german discount chains set

Frys is not more expensive than TJs [0] When you drive east from AZ, you drive past the cheapest gas in the US[1]

[0]https://www.frysfood.com/savings/weeklyad/ [1]https://gasprices.aaa.com/

[bluejekyll]

I think you’re missing the point of the comment. They wanted to live in a more walkable, bikeable, human centered environment that doesn’t require cars to get around.

You’re making the statement that Phoenix is a great place, and a great place to drive, if you don’t mind driving for your errands, etc.

They clearly don’t enjoy needing to drive everywhere, and NYC is a great place to be if you don’t want to have a car centric life.

[merman]

>Though really I think this is an indictment of the current state of Phoenix more than it is a reason to praise Manhattan

They also claim that many other states compare favorably to Phoenix, middle-America states. Suburbia, drive-centric states, like almost all of US.

[ZoomerCretin]

>Don't know why the top comment is dumping on Phx as if it doesn't have a great road system.

They left Phoenix _because_ it is a kind of place with a "great road system." A place is either great to be, or great to drive in, but not both.