[brutus1213]

I used to feel intensely lonely until my 30s. I made significant efforts to get out there and socialize. Something changed and I'm now considered a very extroverted person by others. A few things clicked inside me. Some books you may want to consider:

1) Dale Carnegie's how to win friends and influence people book.

2) The Game by Neil Strauss(friend gave me a copy .. this is about pick up artists, something I never did but it was influential in some way)

3) Surely you're joking Mr. Feynmann

All these books have something about being social. I make it a bit to get to know strangers (on planes, uber rides, whatever). I almost think of it as a missed opportunity if I don't have an engaging conversation with people. Many are strangers and I'll never see them again, so if I say something stupid, whatever. I guess that is the idea I got from The Game.

I still suck in group settings socially. I feel incredibly awkward. But 1-1, I am actually impressed with my transformation. I was super introverted until exactly 30. I guess one other thing that changed is if someone invites me to something social, I always came along, and I kept a smile on my face. This was exceptionally easy to do in NYC (getting invites to hang out with people I mean).

I also have to say, friend, you must love and respect yourself, first and foremost. I felt some pain in your words. Look .. we all have done stupid things we may cringe on in reflection. My addiction is tech and online shopping. I try to do my vices in moderation. Don't judge yourself too harshly. We're all imperfect humans. Good luck to you.

[maxbond]

Please note that Neil Strauss has said that pickup artistry destroyed his ability to relate to women and remain faithful to his wife, and that he seems to regret it. I'm only so familiar with his work, but my understanding is that he didn't know what to do when he met a woman he actually cared for, and that he couldn't "turn off" his objectification of women and his desire for sexual conquest.

I'd really encourage people to steer clear of pickup artistry, especially people who feel they are in a vulnerable frame of mind. The central goal of pickup artistry is to manipulate women into lowering their expectations rather than being a partner who fulfills their needs. And that's just not a recipe for happiness in the long term. (And it's not an okay way to treat people either.)

[brutus1213]

I agree with what you said, and said the same. I never cared to practice it (and have some moral qualms with it). The book was insightful for me nonetheless.

[maxbond]

I understand. I've taken meaning from problematic books before too, specifically the adjacent community (with similar problems) of "body language experts" (which turns out to be a grift unsupported by evidence). I did try to use this, with cringey results. I don't recommend these books to people anymore, but there is the odd concept I still find interesting.

I figured that many people would be lurking this thread, potentially for years after this, looking for advice, and I just wanted to put up a sign post in front of this rabbit hole.

Once I went through a terrible breakup with a woman who emotionally abused and gaslit me. I was traumatized and vulnerable, and looking for answers. Thank goodness I didn't stumble into the pickup or Manosphere communities; I worry I'd have been easy pickings for the grifters who prey on them.

[adantical]

I will check out the books you mentioned. Judging from the books and your experience, it seems like maybe what changed for you was taking it all a little less seriously, which resonates with me. I do get the sense that some people approach life a bit more like a game, where sadness, joy, and fun are just naturally a part of the journey -- nothing more, nothing less. Thank you for your kind words.

[lytefm]

„How to talk to anyone” by Leil Lowndes is also a great and actionable book.

+1 for scepticisms towards pickup artistry. I'd rather aim for „how can I become the person that women actually want“.