[nostrademons]

Parenting & the public education system is a very artificially constructed bubble designed to reinforce and reward "good" behavior, where "good" is usually defined as "that which makes life easier for my caregivers". That gives kids a falsely inflated sense of how much everything matters: your caregivers want you to mind your behavior, because then they don't have to, even if you would've been perfectly fine playing with mud or swearing in school or watching TV all day.

In real life there's basically one absolute goal, and that's survival. And that's largely assured in developed western countries these days, unless you do something really stupid. Everything else is socially constructed, and pretty arbitrary. There are some decisions that are fairly consequential for what your life will look like (where & whether to go to college, what field to go in, what metro area to move to, which employers to work for, who to marry, whether & when & with whom to have kids), but you will still have a life regardless, it just might be a slightly smaller house or a spouse that you click with worse or less disposable income for travel.

That's also instructive for what decisions actually do matter. Don't do drugs. Wear your seatbelt. Don't get pregnant unless you mean to. Don't play with loaded guns. If you're staying away from major causes of death you're generally doing pretty well.

[PragmaticPulp]

This is the kind of mindset that felt obvious to me when I was young and resented anyone else trying to influence what I chose to do for myself.

But after growing up and having kids of my own as well as watching others' kids grow up with varying degrees of parental involvement, I have a whole new appreciation for adult caregivers who get involved and help shape healthy behaviors and habits in kids.

> your caregivers want you to mind your behavior, because then they don't have to, even if you would've been perfectly fine playing with mud or swearing in school or watching TV all day.

You've got it backwards. The easy way of caregiving is to just not care. Let kids watch TV all day, swear in inappropriate social situations, and whatever else they feel like doing. You don't have to get involved if you just don't care what they're doing.

But anyone who has worked with kids in an education setting can tell you that this doesn't actually produce good outcomes for the kids. There are occasional exception stories where students with minimal parental involvement lean heavily into becoming successful in life, but the more common outcome is that hands-off or absentee parenting styles lead to poor outcomes for the children, including social and personal issues. It's not just about getting good grades just because. It's about learning how to operate and function within a civilized society, as well as how to balance your own emotions, impulses, desires, and other behaviors they need to learn as they grow up.

[EdwardDiego]

It so happens that "good" behaviour that we seek to embed in our children is generally the same as behaviour that is good for society.

Broadly the values I've tried to instil in my children break down as

- Take responsibilities seriously

- Apply your best efforts

- Be considerate

- Cultivate empathy

- Value yourself

- Don't be a dick

- When you screw up, admit it, and make amends

These, when applied, lead to the behaviours that make parenting easy, and I'm hoping will make them good members of society in general.

[logicchains]

> It so happens that "good" behaviour that we seek to embed in our children is generally the same as behaviour that is good for society.

The behaviour that most of the school system seeks to embed in children is primarily "obey and do as you're told, don't question", which is far from good.

[EdwardDiego]

I disagree, but our school systems probably differ.

[tasuki]

> In real life there's basically one absolute goal, and that's survival. And that's largely assured in developed western countries these days, unless you do something really stupid.

Or just get unlucky: no need to do anything stupid. One can easily die of cancer at 30 and leave a toddler behind.

[JoeAltmaier]

Well, not so easily. The chances per-capita are in the sub-percent range at 30.

[tasuki]

Yes, easily. My partner died of cancer at 30 despite exercising, avoiding alcohol, going for the screening, and generally trying her best.

Chances are it won't happen to you and your close ones. Perhaps try being grateful rather than dismissive?

[Edit: perhaps we have a misunderstanding as to the word "easily". I'm not saying it's likely, I'm saying it can and does happen without any warning signs and no amount of planning/preparation can save you.]

[EdwardDiego]

Unless you're exposed to a carcinogenic chemical...

[angstrom]

Nah, not even. I have a mutation called CDH1 that happens to be pathogenic and predisposes me to a greater than 40% chance of stomach cancer. It's a dominant gene which means it has a 50% chance I've passed it onto my daughter as well.

That cancer is what's known as a Hereditary Diffuse Gastric Cancer gene (HDGC). It just so happens that the E-cadherin control that suppresses those cancer cells is not processed properly. The diffuse part is what makes it particularly tricky. It's on the surface of the stomach epithelial cells and progresses from there. The only solution is a total gastrectomy (prophylactic if you do it early). No carcinogen necessary. It's found in populations all over the world and pathogenic lines don't even have to be related. The mutation can occur independently in the germline and is passed on. As long as you reproduce before it kills you nature really doesn't care.

Fun side fact. It also predisposes carriers to 70% chance of breast cancer. As a result many of those diagnosed are women who then find out they need to also have their stomachs removed.

[eecc]

Ouch, that’s a raw deal. Very very very sorry about you. If you don’t mind me asking, what are the consequences and mitigations necessary to live with a total stomach removal?

[koide]

I would say that there is indeed a problem with modern tech companies where things matter even less than they should. It's not a problem of being raised in a context where everything matters, but that many companies, especially tech are totally care free with their vc money, and we can see that changing in the last months of downturn.

Raising children to care is good and takes lots of effort.

Raising children to leave parents alone usually means the children end up not caring or worse.

[xg15]

True until you have kids yourself or in other ways become responsible for people you care about.