[AlchemistCamp]

> Elon might end up pulling it off. I hope he doesn’t though and I’m going to do what it takes to influence that decision.

Wow. That’s a pretty mean-spirited way to go through life. Why not put your efforts into building something positive instead of trying to tear others down?

[macintux]

Arguably it’s better in the long term for civilization if narcissistic bullies don’t succeed.

[AlchemistCamp]

The problem with that goal, even if one were to assume your assessment of him is correct, is that you'd be advocating for the end of adoption of electric vehicles and keeping humanity a single planet species forever, thus increasing our existential risks.

Since his success metric for launching Tesla was the success of green tech itself rather than Tesla's market share and his goals for SpaceX were similarly broad rather than purely financial, making a point of trying to make him fail is also negatively aligned with long term civilizational outcomes. It would take a very petty person to hope that we go back to throwing away rockets after a single use, just because they have a beef with the person in and inspired others to build a reusable one.

If you feel that the 2018-2021 era version of Twitter was its ideal state, that's defensible even if a bit odd. But hoping a platform millions love fails, just because of the guy who bought it (and has a track record of doing great things for humanity), then your goal sucks.

[ryanwaggoner]

It’s pretty bizarre take to think that just because Elon has done amazing things for humanity (which I’ll take at face value), that you should root for him to succeed at whatever he does, regardless of how destructive it is.

I hope he fails hard at this and returns to making rockets. Tesla could disappear at this point and I don’t think it would matter, but SpaceX feels important still.

[AlchemistCamp]

Well hopefully you're not implying that's my take, because I don't think you should root for him to succeed at everything he does.

I think you should focus on what you want to make in the world rather than how to hurt others.

Even within the scope of companies to destroy, Twitter seems like an exceptionally poor target. Is Twitter really so much more threatening than Apple, Google, MS, FB, Tiktok, Tencent, any company marketing cigarettes etc, that it's worthy of setting aside all the productive things you can do with your life and make it your ambition to bring it down?

The amount of negative energy focused at it is downright pathological given its size and impacts, IMO.

[ryanwaggoner]

That’s basically what you said, yes:

“The problem with that goal…is that you'd be advocating for the end of adoption of electric vehicles and keeping humanity a single planet species forever”

I don’t care about Twitter itself, but I hope that Elon’s cruel and destructive approach fails.

And I’m not so entranced by his self-aggrandizing mythology that I think him failing at Twitter will have any impact whatsoever on adoption of electric vehicles or our ability to get to space. Give me a break lol

[AlchemistCamp]

> ”I don’t care about Twitter itself, but I hope that Elon’s cruel and destructive approach fails.”

Cruel and destructive?

That’s quite the extreme and bizarre interpretation of recent events, and it’s not very charitable. I hope you find something a bit more positive to focus your energies on.

The truth is, neither of us can know what the long term consequences of the leadership change will be but it’s almost certainly not worth doing this to yourself over it.

[andsoitis]

> you'd be advocating for the end of adoption of electric vehicles and keeping humanity a single planet species forever thus increasing our existential risks.

Even if you thought that we could become multi-planetary (incl. not just getting to other planets but living there in our current human form), thinking that Elon Musk is the only person on earth ever who could make this happen is pretty cultish. I mean, come on. Do you really believe he is humanity's savior?

[AlchemistCamp]

I believe in humanity’s ability to do it.

Also, you completely missed the point. Since his ultimate goal with SpaceX is a multi-planetary future, the only way to make him “fail” at that goal is to ensure a single or zero-planetary future for humanity.

Seems kinda dark.

[mhss]

Now you are redefining what failure looks like. I'd bet most people that don't want 'Elon the bully' to succeed are talking about their businesses failing (e.g Twitter going down). If you're somehow claiming Musk's succeeds even if SpaceX fails as a business but another company from another founder succeeds in making a multi-planetary future, that's quite the mental gymnastics, but, whatever lets you keep the saviour image of Musk you have I suppose.

[AlchemistCamp]

I’m not redefining anything. I’m literally referring to the stated goals for each of those two companies.

Please take a look at the HN guidelines. The personal swipe in your comment violates them.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine.

[mlindner]

It's only in your opinion that is what he is. If you've actually been following him in detail for any length of time you'd realize that doesn't really describe him.

[macintux]

“Pedo guy”: bully, even ignoring the borderline abusive behavior over the last few weeks.

Narcissist? The fact that he’s nominally head of 3 companies, trying to execute a dramatic turnaround on one in real time, but still tweets constantly.

Certainly, he has many positive attributes. But, quoting Steve Rogers, I don’t like bullies.

[Robotbeat]

The Pedo guy was one of the dumbest things Elon has done. But it's worth noting that the guy had used a sexually explicit insult against Elon on TV immediately before that. It didn't come out of nowhere. Elon stupidly went much further. Elon is mean to people who are mean to him and nice to people who are nice to him. That makes him kind of easy to manipulate.

Neurotypicals (and those with higher social intelligence) know you're supposed to pretend to be nice to people who are mean to you.

[mhss]

I guess you can find excuses to defend anyone, including bullies. I mean, most bullies were bullied and abused themselves, so there's that. What's the excuse for the other points raised by the OP though? + a bunch of other stuff such as firing people and announcing it on Twitter over people disagreeing on Twitter with him?

I find amusing all the mental gymnastics Musk followers are doing these days. It does seem like a personality cult.

I used to look up to him, read one of his biographies, etc; Plenty to admire from his achievements, but his most recent toxic behaviour and shitty management style has really changed that.

[kodyo]

There will always be government careers for those people to fall back on.

[nebula8804]

The problem is that this is a unique case. If Twitter 2.0 succeeds, then it sends a signal to the capital class that they can proceed in buying up tech companies and gutting them to the bone. The power that Engineers have will be severely reduced and I suspect that avenue towards a respectable middle class life will be further eroded. Hell if Twitter only lasts a few more years, Elon has the potential of turning it around enough to sell it, getting the credit and the profit and letting someone else hold the bag. In this case its not a matter of mean spirited or not. This is a silent war going on and the other side could care less about being nice.

[Robotbeat]

To be honest, I think maybe engineers' talents would be better spent on things other than optimizing ad placement and toxic engagement. So I'm fine either way...

If Twitter 2.0 succeeds, then ad-reliant "tech" businesses will be gutted and engineers freed to do more constructive things... if it fails, then one of the most toxic websites--toxic even before Elon, of course--might go under. But I think that's wishful thinking.

[nebula8804]

I think it wont stop at ad-reliant tech companies. Twitter 2.0 succeeding will show that you can force Engineers to work in much harsher conditions for less pay and that will become the norm. They become the same as other blue collar roles. Just surviving and not thriving. I've often felt that was a motivating push behind "Learn to Code", bootcamps and other initiatives. Engineers have been blessed to have this unique power over the capital class. Its a once in a generation (or two) opportunity and that class is trying to find any way it can to wrestle back that power.

[bergenty]

It’s normalizing slavery pleb conditions for engineers.

[ss2003]

Because there are many things that should just be torn down.

[memish]

It's hard to build. It's easy to tear down.

It's an unfortunate asymmetry.

[guelo]

See for example, Elon buying Twitter and tearing everything down.

[honkler]

yeah, I'm building the downfall of twitter

[bergenty]

His agenda and what he’s enabling is incredibly mean spirited to large swaths of the population to the point where it observably increases violence against them. In contrast, my hope that his financial venture fails isn’t all that destructive.

[mlindner]

I find it difficult to believe that "embracing the idea that what is legal should be legal on a platform designed for conveying speech" should be considered evil. Unless you believe that American law with regards to speech is also evil.

[Larrikin]

It's a pretty easy argument that tearing Twitter down and reducing the wealth of the richest guy on paper is building a better world.

[Robotbeat]

What's remarkable to me is people cheering desperately for Tesla to fail.

Also weird that people were both cheering for Elon to be forced to buy Twitter, then mad that he bought it.

Then cheering for Elon Twitter to fail (hoping for advertisers to leave even before any layoffs were announced) and then lambasting Elon for being so mean to lay off people (how can they stay employed if Twitter's revenue fails?). It's really weird.