[eyelidlessness]

I’m not an ADHD emissary but… please folks, self diagnose. Don’t self treat, that’s what we do anyway. If you think you have ADHD, take it seriously until you don’t. If you’re still taking it seriously, talk to a professional. We’re wildly underdiagnosed, and you’re probably right.

[bluefirebrand]

Yeah.. I got diagnosed with ADHD at 34 and my life has improved substantially with the treatment following diagnosis. If I hadn't seen stuff floating around on the internet and "self diagnosed" (Reading people's experiences with ADHD and thinking Hey! That's me!) enough to ask a doctor about it, I'd still be struggling way more than I need to.

[P_I_Staker]

Yeah I would argue ADHD is almost self diagnoseable. The biggest issue is similarity with depression or bipolar.

ADHD people can seem more bipolar than bipolar people, because the average person doesn't understand these conditions. They would observe someone that's very mercurial and moody, and say it's definitely bipolar.

Bipolar is a state that lasts for and extended time, days to weeks. It doesn't mean you're euphoric in the morning, but depressed two hours later. That could be many things including ADHD.

[FollowingTheDao]

> ADHD people can seem more bipolar than bipolar people

As someone living with Schizoaffective Bipolar Disorder I cannot disagree with this more. I know many people with ADHD and they all are nothing like me.

> Bipolar is a state that lasts for and extended time, days to weeks. It doesn't mean you're euphoric in the morning, but depressed two hours later.

This is not true either for all of us. I have episodes of ultra rapid cycling that means my cycles can be as quick a two hours.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9702745/

[P_I_Staker]

Hey good to know bud. I think there's lots of information out there that says otherwise, but I know WebMD, Mayo, ect. can be tricky.

I was speaking to the perception of ADHD. Hair trigger moods are often interpreted as "bipolar"... I'm talking from experience of ADHD symptoms being seen as bipolar.

I wasn't trying to say anyone was just like you :). Just that some ADHD symptoms can be misinterpreted as bipolar, which I'm confident is true.

I'm very interested in the information you provided and appreciate you taking the time to discuses. This could be useful information! Hope you're doing well.

[FollowingTheDao]

> Just that some ADHD symptoms can be misinterpreted as bipolar, which I'm confident is true.

By lay people yes, I would assume so, but most people without a mood disorder have no idea. But msitaking ADHD for Bipolar is much less likely by psychiatrists. I am sure it goes both ways so sorry for painting an overly broad brush, but I have been in the field for a while. ADHD is sort of a thing right now so the trend is misdiagnosis of ADHD.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21318193/

"ADHD was overdiagnosed (all patients with ADHD had received the diagnosis, as did 38% of patients with MDD and 29% of patients with BD, respectively),"

Just a anecdote. Both myself and my nephew were "diagnosed" with ADHD, and both ta the same young age. They gave us both ADHD meds and it led to a horrible manic episode for me and it led to my nephew's suicide.

[P_I_Staker]

I see. This is good to know. I don't know about your nephew's condition, or if there were other issues: drugs, personal problems, etc. I also have a family member who suffered a similar fate, but I think he was addicted to illicit STIMs. Sorry for your loss.

I'm trying to get put on these meds, because I know how effective they are for me. That said, I will listen to your warning, and your nephews experience. I appreciate the reasonable conversation.

[FollowingTheDao]

My nephew was like the rest of my family; genetics and bad environment (diet, EMFs). Then bad medicine.

GCH1, NOS1AP, and CACNA1C are three of the main genes causing our sensitivities and mood disorders.

Thanks and good luck.

[FollowingTheDao]

> We’re wildly underdiagnosed, and you’re probably right.

Why? Why is this happening all of the sudden? Is it genetics? Environment? Culture?

Why is no one asking the important questions and just popping pills and going on with their life?

[eyelidlessness]

> Why?

Because there are a bunch of biases which lead to underdiagnosis. One is that the diagnostic criteria are centered around behavior in children as observed by adults, rather than around what actual symptoms people with ADHD experience directly. Another is the kinds of stigmatization you’ve engaged with here, and in previous threads. Several biases lead to underdiagnosis of women, people of color, poorer people and people with other mental health issues. And in general biases against psychiatric medications.

> Why is this happening all of the sudden?

It’s not. There has been a long term trend, for as long as I can remember, of more people gradually overcoming some of those biases, leading to increased diagnoses. There has been a recent upsurge in diagnoses since the pandemic began, true, with many of its stressors probably contributing to people recognizing symptoms with which they’d coped better previously.

> Is it genetics? Environment? Culture?

Genetics is probably a major contributing factor. ADHD in parents is a strong predictor of ADHD in their children. Environment and culture probably contribute significantly to severity and recognition of symptoms.

> Why is no one asking the important questions

Why do you think so?

> and just popping pills and going on with their life?

Note: I did not encourage anyone to pop pills. And I specifically discouraged self-medication in my encouragement of self-diagnosis. Anyone who takes this advice, and who then decides to consider treatment, should consult with a doctor.

[FollowingTheDao]

> Because there are a bunch of biases which lead to underdiagnosis.

No.

https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/timeline.html

It is not possible to tell whether this increase represents a change in the number of children who have ADHD, or a change in the number of children who were diagnosed.

>Genetics is probably a major contributing factor.

Is it your opinion our genetics are changing? Would it not be more likely that the environment was changing?

Mobile Phone Use, Blood Lead Levels, and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Symptoms in Children: A Longitudinal Study https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

Effect of Short-Term LTE RF-EMF Exposure on Dopamine Signaling and Behaviors in Mice http://www.jkiees.org/archive/view_article?pid=jkiees-31-10-...

>> Why is no one asking the important questions

> Why do you think so?

I can only speak for myself. Because once I understood the biological pathways that lead to ADHD I saw there was more to the story than just genetics.

> Another is the kinds of stigmatization you’ve engaged with here,

What? I have Schisoaffective Bipolar Disoder, disabled with it for the last 30 years. Off all meds now because I know genetics, the pathways, and the diet/environment that affects me. I do not undersatdn how saying that there is more to ADHD than your psychiatrist knows right now is stigmatizing.

I have no problem with people taking pharm meds.

[eyelidlessness]

> No.

> https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/timeline.html

> It is not possible to tell whether this increase represents a change in the number of children who have ADHD, or a change in the number of children who were diagnosed

That’s an orthogonal question. The biases I enumerated exist. The extent to which any given one of those biases affect people’s likelihood of diagnosis may vary depending on the bias itself and on the ratio of increased incidence to increased diagnosis. But one of those biases is evident right here in your chosen link: focus on childhood diagnosis. Which, again, is diagnostically centered around outside behavioral observation by adults, not around experienced symptoms of diagnosed patients.

> Is it your opinion our genetics are changing? Would it not be more likely that the environment was changing?

I’m not sure, and I’m not sure what your point is in asking. My point about genetics is that parents with ADHD are highly likely to have children with ADHD. In other words, that it’s heritable. That fact would be true whether

- instances are increasing, eg more people with ADHD having more children

- instances are stable but diagnoses are increasing

- instances are declining in tandem with improved diagnostic outcomes

> I do not undersatdn how saying that there is more to ADHD than your psychiatrist knows right now is stigmatizing.

The stigma you’re contributing is suggesting that people are disinclined to ask important questions in favor of “just popping pills”, which, that being a direct quote…

> I have no problem with people taking pharm meds.

You either very clearly do have a problem with it, or should very seriously reconsider how you discuss the subject. You’ve followed me from one subthread to another making comments of the same sort, and you seem determined to continue making comments like that while insisting they be interpreted how you choose rather than how they’re read. Not just by me.

I’m not sure what you’re trying to achieve. It’s entirely possible you have the best intentions as expressed, and are communicating poorly. It’s also possible you’re overly confident that you know better than the vast majority of ADHD patients and their licensed professional physicians and don’t recognize that such overconfidence deviates from your stated intent. It’s also possible you’re being partially or entirely disingenuous about your intent. I’m not sure, but I am only responding to the words you’re posting.

[cpsns]

Exactly, if you think you might have it get yourself tested. If you end up not having it you can be glad, if you do end up having it your life will probably make a lot more sense very quickly.