[egiboy]

The author, by making this claim, lays bare the fact that they do not know about Eurovision.

Key changes are so common in Eurovision songs that it is mentioned in the ultimate Eurovision spoof song "Love Love Peace Peace", which also features at least one key change: https://youtu.be/Cv6tgnx6jTQ

The reports of the death of the key change, dare I say, are greatly exaggerated.

[steeleduncan]

This is related to the real reason key changes no longer chart, they are a cliche. You are no more likely to get a song with cheesy modulations into the Billboard top 100 than you are a book that starts "it was a dark and stormy night" into the New York Times bestseller list.

In Eurovision though, the cheese is part of the fun.

[adamc]

Trying to comprehend the idea that "key changes are cliche". No. Maybe certain patterns are cliche, but there are so many interesting things you can do with key changes that the remark is just silly.

But it isn't just key changes that have gone away. We used to let drummers speed up and slow down with the emotion of the song. Now we want everything on a grid for ease of production, we pitch-correct even when it isn't really needed, we sample sounds rather than have real musicians play. The result of all that is that songs have a narrower envelope of variation, and they tend to be more simplistic.

[musicale]

I think one reason for having fairly consistent pitch and rhythm in popular dance music is that it can make it easier for club DJs and can help to keep people moving. Digital DJ decks can help, but shifting pitch or tempo too far can sound (and feel) jarring and unnatural.

Though with traditional vinyl the pitch can shift as one record is sped up or slowed down to match the tempo of another. It can be challenging to simultaneously match both the tempo and tuning of two vinyl records.

As noted in the article, grid-based tools do seem to be designed to facilitate loop-based production. But Logic is also frequently used for soundtracks and certainly supports key and tempo changes. Moreover the chromatic piano grid used in many DAWs and sequencers seems more key agnostic than a staff with a key signature. Not only that, but some DAWs (Ableton Live for example) are very good at processing samples so that their rhythm and tuning can easily be adjusted.

[josteink]

> The author, by making this claim, lays bare the fact that they do not know about Eurovision.

Historically I would say that to be an accurate statement. It used to be a Eurovision-staple.

The latest few years though, I’ve been surprised that literally none of the songs making it to the finals have key-changes like this any more.

When it’s usage is decimated, even in Eurovision-songs, I think that clearly shows the author has a solid point.

[taylorius]

I watch Eurovision for the laughs, and because I enjoy it as an anachronism that flies in the face of the internet's frictionless free market optimisation. But lately the acts have started all singing in English, and generally getting a bit X Factor-ish, so maybe its time is sadly drawing to a close.

[sorenjan]

The winners in 2021 sang Italian metal, the winners in 2022 sang Ukranian rap and folk music. I unfortunately think it's inevitable to get more bland and optimized contributions, but the last winners have shown that the audience likes novelty.

[taylorius]

This is true, and a very good sign I'd say!

[323]

Key changes are very popular in song contests because they allow the (live) singer to show off their skills.

But key changes are not popular in popular (sic) songs. Very few EuroVision songs transition to the radio/....

You can easily tell which songs were mostly influenced by a singer (made for them) or by a producer (made for plays/profit). Stuff which is popular with singer, elaborate vocal constructions don't typically make for a good song.

Which is why you need a producer to say NO to the singer if you want a popular song. Of course, the singer can be the producer, but it's a different skill set.

[Finnucane]

The article literally limits its context to the billboard top 100. It's right there in the title.

[TylerE]

Eurovision is irrelevant to the US market. Those songs do not chart here.

[WastingMyTime89]

They chart nowhere. That’s not the point. Noticing that key changes are still popular at what is one of the most popular song contest in the world is however very relevant to a discussion about the public taste.

[unwind]

They most certainly chart in Sweden, here's the chart from May 14th (the day after the the Eurovision finals) [1]. This is "Svensktoppen", a very long-running list of top-played Swedish songs in Swedish radio. Off the top of my head, positions 1, 3, 4 and 5 were all candidates for Eurovision (and the song in position #3 was the one that competed in Eurovision).

In Swedish, this key change is generally called a "schlagerhöjning", where "schlager" [2] is the broad genre word for the type of songs that compete in the Eurovision. The term is old, obviously there's a rather wide genre spread these days but it used to be more same-same.

Edit: added a "Swedish" above, I did not realize that the chart only lists Swedish music, saw another comment mention this. Very weird of me.

[1]: https://sverigesradio.se/topplista.aspx?programid=2023&date=...

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schlager_music

[peterkelly]

So what? The US has less than 5% of the global population. Pretending the other 95% of the world is "irrelevant" seems odd.

[thesuitonym]

This article is about US charts, so any conversation about the other 95% of the world is, by definition, irrelevant.

[BiteCode_dev]

Espacially for art, since a song can have decades of success without the need to make billions on the us market.

[323]

But probably 50% of the global population listens to US music.

[narag]

I don't have the numbers but I would be cautious there. Some US music is listened in other countries, but not all of it. Not everything is easily exportable.

Also there are local musicians popular in each country. And there are musicians from countries other than the US that are international but unknown in the US.

Anyway, Eurovision is quite irrelevant in Europe too :)

Edit... for native English speakers, consider this: there're songs in which the lyrics are more important than music. That kind of music is usually boring if you can't understand what they're saying.

[toomanybeersies]

Anecdotally, most of the music I heard when I was travelling in South America wasn't American music. Same thing with South East Asia.

Look at the Billboard (or equivalent) charts for Germany, France, Argentina, or any other non-Anglo country; maybe 10% of the entries are English language or from American artists.

[mkl95]

They don't chart that much in Europe either. Eurovision is tone deaf.

[dividedbyzero]

I'd rather say that what works in that huge party simply doesn't necessarily work outside of it, at least not everywhere. The ESC is still crazy successful, at 161 Million viewers this year worldwide.

[andybak]

At least in the UK - people are watching with a mixture of morbid fascination and ironic glee. I've never met anyone who thinks it's a valid forum for good pop music.

[AlecSchueler]

Is chart performance really the only marker we have left for cultural relevance?

Eurovision is hugely popular and continuously and commercially successful outside of the charts world.

[ilyt]

It's coz everyone wants to watch a good clown fiesta, not because it has any relevance to music

[recuter]

I didn't know charts matter anymore.

[bambataa]

Well shucks, maybe they should just cancel it then.

[tomcam]

Is there a way to watch the Eurovision contest in the US?

[sorenjan]

The same people that have produced Eurovision for something like a decade is now making American song contest, where states compete against each other. I'm not convinced it will work, but we'll see.

[pionar]

Peacock broadcast the last Eurovision contest hosted by Johnny Weir in the US. I assume that'll continue.