[krapp]

The phrase "punctuality and logical objectivity (were|are) "white expectations" not to be applied to persons of color" does not appear anywhere in that image, nor does any assertion of the kind.

It's just a (somewhat stereotypical - "bland is best," really?) list of the aspects of Western culture which the author believes derive from "white culture." It doesn't even present these points as negative.

If one were to criticize it, one could point out the degree to which many so-called "white cultural" ideals were founded on a religion not created by white people (Christianity) and non-Judeo-Christian (Greek and Hindu) philosophy and ideals. The European cultural complex didn't arise in a vaccuum.

Also that many of those bullet points seem to be so vague as to be universal. For instance, I doubt white people alone recognize the existence of cause and effect, respect for authority or patriarchy.

But the general premise - that the constructs of white culture (to the degree that it exists, which itself is debated) are considered default in American society, as a function of white supremacy reinforcing that default on all races and suppressing cultural variance in the name of conformity to a white-derived normativity - is correct.

[origin_path]

"the general premise ... is correct"

That can't be, unless one subscribes to a highly racist view of the world. Concepts like "objective, rational linear thinking" are not anything to do with "whiteness" and to even suggest it is, is really quite profoundly insulting to everyone who isn't white.

[krapp]

>Concepts like "objective, rational linear thinking" are not anything to do with "whiteness" and to even suggest it is, is really quite profoundly insulting to everyone who isn't white.

Yes. As I spent several short paragraphs saying exactly just that, and in agreement with that premise. "The constructs of white culture" to which I referred do not refer to the specific items of that list, which I explicitly disclaimed and criticized in my comment.

I probably should have been more specific, precise and exact in my wording and not assumed that people would have put forth more than the minimum effort for a comment that goes against the HN zeitgeist, but I suspect I could have posted an entire essay and no one here would have bothered to actually read all the words. Mea culpa.

[origin_path]

I did read it. You attempted to disclaim the specific claims of the poster whilst also arguing its premise was correct, but the premise of "white culture" (which does not exist, no debate needed) being functions of "white supremacy" that "suppresses cultural variance" is just nonsensical racist gibberish from the US left. Slowmovintarget has it right - we've seen this sort of thing before except with "the rich" or "capitalism" being used instead of "whiteness".

[slowmovintarget]

These are not the constructs of "white culture." That's merely the straw-man label adopted by the propaganda poster. This is just basic anti-capitalist, collectivist nonsense, with "whiteness" being the scapegoat instead of "the Jews" or "the rich."

[qikInNdOutReply]

Its the only society, that integrated large scale the best of other cultures, leaving behind some of the worst in all cultures. Japanese culture, Indian culture, european cultures it all went into the melting pot and was accepted, aprreciated and cheered on. That happened nowhere else on that scale, except as a remimport from america, and its very insulting to insinunuate that the rejected cultural pieces were rejected out of racism. The truth is, lots of other cultures have horrible bits and pieces, that were washed out of the blending for a very good reason. This very debate, would never be had, in a majority of countries around the globe.

Which makes it all the more incredible, that the "host" operating system culture of the melting pot is attacked and a attempt is made to "regulate" cultural blending. Its a majority vote system, without a need for regulation. The good thing goes in ("Yoga" as a sport, meditation system), the bad stays out (insane cults, backwards religous practices that are abanduned in all religions). Nobody needed to facilitate or control that, but a sparse, neutral stove and a pot.

The people vote, with there feet, there wallets and there actions. Unemployed commisars, race-warriors and revolutionarys are free to form a line for unemployment checks.

[krapp]

European cultures (if we're talking about the US) were never, and still aren't, accepted by indigenous people, much less cheered on. Africans were brought over as slaves and had all connections to their heritage and culture removed, Asians were harassed, sterotyped and made an underclass. Many immigrants had to change their names to "Americanized" versions at Ellis Island, especially Jews.

Yes, a lot of progress has been made in regards to cultural integration in the US, but that progress has been due to attempts to "regulate" cultural blending, rather than in spite of it. The US has had to be forced time and again - often with persistent struggle and at times violence - to live up to its stated ideals. Even today, the most prominent political movement across the US and Europe is explicitly Eurocentric and xenophobic, seeing immigration as a threat to cultural integrity and civil society and multicultural and multiracial integration is at best harmful, at worst impossible.

[rayiner]

Are you American? As a foreigner it seems to me that america is incredibly culturally integrated and open compared to virtually anywhere else. People in my home country wouldn’t put up with a fraction of what Americans put up with.

[philistine]

There’s a difference between the situation on the street so to speak, and the hoarding of power at the political level.

[rayiner]

What “hoarding of power?” Sonia Ghandi, who moved to India at 18, was president of India’s biggest political party for 30 years, but was never able to run for Prime Minister because she was born in Italy. Meanwhile the daughter of an Indian is vice president in the US. The US has got to be one of the few countries in the world where the country’s founding people no longer hold a majority of the political power.

[philistine]

Your one example is terrible, because the US would have prevented Sonia Ghandi from being President too for not being born in the country. Harris was born in the US.

If you believe the anglo-saxon majority no longer holds the majority of the political power in the US, ouf.

[boppo1]

>claiming that cultural and racial integration is impossible

If mathematics and the recognition of cause-and-effect are white supremacy, then maybe they're right. /s

Seriously, this new "dei" or "crt" rhetoric needs to get shut down hard or it will undo all the progress that has been achieved.

[slowmovintarget]

Attacking mathematics and science is part of the playbook for collectivists. Objective truth is the enemy of propaganda. Propaganda is the means to control belief, which is required to control behavior, which is required to centralize control of economic activity (people's behavior) and redistribute resources.

Therefore the idea of the existence of objective truth (2+2=4) must destroyed and subverted in order for the "goodfact" to be swallowed.

I just finished The Road to Serfdom by F. A. Hayek, and he lays this out fairly well as a strategy of totalitarian regimes, or groups with totalitarian impulses. (Chapter 11, I believe)

[Tainnor]

I'll admit to not knowing my history well at this point, but wasn't mathematics and the sciences rather important to socialist countries? Now I don't doubt that ideology will have been injected in certain instances, but at least in mathematics and physics that's a bit harder to do and hence there were quite a number of accomplished mathematicians in the USSR.

Even beyond the natural sciences, this seems to have been somewhat the case. I remember my uncle, who is as unabashedly anti-communist as it gets, once showing me a grammar of some minority language written in the GDR and commenting, almost with admiration, that "back then, they invested a lot of resources on things like that".

[kaba0]

Yes, the Soviet Union was actually quite enlightened on the science front, and they were especially good in teaching Mathematics and elevating talent. Just compare a soviet era math textbook to its “western” counterpart, the former is much more in-depth. Also, they were famously anti-religion, putting science above it.

[TeeMassive]

> were never, and still aren't, accepted by indigenous people, much less cheered on.

This is simply not true. The natives embraced a lot of aspects of European culture. Nearly all developed métis cultures and deep commercial trade. Most of the initial treaties were ones of friendship and alliances.

Go visit a native museum, they want to preserve their culture, not expunge it from European influence. They hate wokeness and mass immigration too, by the way.