Ask HN: How do I thrive as part of an unambitious team?

[HomePhone]

I like my team on a personal level but not on a professional level. The team does not seem to be interested in learning, professional growth, or improving anything. They prioritize team events such as happy hour and hiring those that are “cool” rather than skilled… to a detriment.

Can you individually succeed in an environment like this or will the teams priorities drag you down?

[throwaway675309]

Ultimately it's not up to you to determine what the team's priority should be, as you're not in a leadership position. By attempting to behave as if you're in such a position you're merely adding to your own stress.

Enjoy the happy hours and the camaraderie with your teammates, meet the expectations of your team and grow on a personal and individual level. You're perfectly capable of improving your own skill set and knowledge base independently.

[idontwantthis]

Or leave, but the lesson is the same. You can’t control others, only your response To them.

[fuzzfactor]

I think you realize that in a team of average-to-below-average ambition, it would usually be possible to accomplish manyX more if only the ambition could be raised way above average like you sometimes see in some high-performance organizations.

It wouldn't really take any more work either in the long run.

It really is a matter of attitude, it's so intangible but everyone has their own ambition level and some may never be able to level up beyond a certain point.

Sometimes everyone has to function close to the low common denominator, and it really can work at its own level. At the other end of the spectrum a team dependent on all high-performers going full speed will feel crippled with one person being out for one day.

If you've done the high-performance thing in the past, it can actually be less frustrating when you get into a laid-back environment, since you already know what you can do. It can be rewarding recognizing how manyX more effective everyone would be even if you can't utilize it at the time.

Also when you're going full steam that won't last either so you need to be prepared attitudewise for a more laid-back period after that too.

It's when you never have pushed your own performance to your above-average target level yet that you might benefit by moving way sooner from a place that's too laid-back. This may be early-career advice but it's good to know early what you really could do with the resources if you had the chance, even if you just prove it to yourself.

[cprayingmantis]

Either you become their inspiring leader with your zeal to push your self or you become like them. There is no middle ground. So think about what you want and act accordingly.

Btw being a leader is way more than having some senior position, a leader is someone who the team looks to for guidance, inspiration, and growth. Don’t need to have some fancy title to give that, don’t have to be formally in charge either.

[fuzzfactor]

I typed my main comment when there were no others yet, and it's nothing like yours.

But you have perfectly good advice too, just as realistic as can be.

Lots of other good advice now too, mainly to move on, kind of like I have in my qualified way.

More inspiration you have for those who dare to rise from right where they are.

Because of what they are more certain to come out like on the other side.

A corrective upvote could not be more appropriate.

[klyrs]

You don't. You stagnate on that team. Challenge yourself, sharpen your skills, and get out.

[eribfob]

Sounds like they have the right idea: don't work too hard, enjoy yourself, make spending time at work a pleasure rather than a chore.

Would your suggestions do anything to improve your colleagues' lives? Probably not, from their perspective. Just means extra work, for an employer that likely doesn't deserve it.

If you don't like it, best to leave and find a team more suited to your employment desires.

[oumua_don17]

>> The team does not seem to be interested ...

You say they seem to, did you validate that? Have you proposed new ideas, lunch and learns etc. In fact a happy team is usually more receptive and it's just that no one has taken the lead.

I would prefer a happy, less ambitious team than a toxic, ambitious team and I am saying this from experience. And it's not a problem in being less ambitious; may be they are a wiser lot!

If your job pays you well with a happy, less ambitious team; it is actually a boon in disguise. It means you are spending less energy and bandwidth and it's upto you how you use that. You can use it for personal learning, family, socialising, new hobby etc. Enjoy this team is my suggestion.

[thenoblesunfish]

Sounds like you should find another team, overall, but one point I'd like to make is that they might be "skilled" in ways you don't understand . Happy hour is making these people like each other and that can help a team get things done. Maybe you're noticing this team takes it too far, but consider the other extreme where everyone is "skilled" but is bad at things like asking each other for help or maintaining morale.

[HermanMartinus]

It sounds like the working situation is pretty in-line with what your colleagues want. I don’t think you need to make them work better/harder if that’s not their priority. They probably won’t be paid more if they do. Your best bet is to find a job that suits your “professional development” level instead of making everyone else cater to yours.

[HermanMartinus]

To add to this, I’d rather be on a team with people I find “cool” and work well with than with high performers I don’t.

[beeboop]

You don't. You need to find another team.

[refurb]

This.

I've worked in jobs like this and it's frustrating to no end. Come up with a good idea that you need help executing? It all falls flat.

Low morale/ambition is absolutely poisonous to teams.

[petespeed]

It all depends on the culture that your organizational leaders support.

If they support your team's culture, then you are in a wrong org. Options: 1) Exit, 2) Invest your time to change them, 3) Challenge yourself to fit with them without losing your motivation, 4) Become like them.

Life is short, and this team is not a good benchmark/reference point for your career in job market, so easy route is #1.

If your leaders do not like such culture, then you have an opportunity to become a change leader. Assuming you are an IC, this path will likely require you to transition into a people leader. Make sure your leaders in sync with your change plans. (see HBR paper: power failure in management circuits).

[oreally]

What the heck even is "professional level" to you?

If it seems like there's a mismatch, do something about it. You can always find something else.

[rgoulter]

> What the heck even is "professional level" to you?

It'd involve a mismatch in expectations of communication or work; where some factors of getting the job done are more important to OP than to his colleagues.

e.g. maybe OP thinks tickets are very important, and his colleagues don't. Maybe OP thinks code quality is important; or taking the time to learn some new tool that would do the job better.

[h4waii]

A job can simply be a job, a means to an end. Money to go do the things that you will thrive at.

It's hard to get there mentally, and you might not even want to, but either you can come around to it, leave, or stay and likely stagnate.

[rdtwo]

Absolutely if you do just slightly better you will look like a rock start. If you are surrounded by rock stars you will just be another band member.

[throwawaysleep]

Depends on what you want. I like such teams to add to my job portfolio as they aren't demanding.

[heldrida]

Use the energy and drive on your own projects.

Those projects will open you new doors or opportunities.

[mbrodersen]

Take it as an opportunity to learn new skills and work on your own projects.

[vhiremath4]

Average of the 5 people you surround yourself with.

[higeorge13]

You won’t, you just leave.

[scombridae]

Most reachers like yourself actively seek situations to be the shark in the guppy pool.

[johlits]

Adapt or move on.

[quickthrower2]

WFH

[danieltillett]

How did you end up on this team?

[cpach]

I don’t know OP but perhaps they simply needed a job?