[aliqot]

When Plan9 gets posted to HN, the feelings are complex. I love you guys, I really do, but plan9 might have been passed up on by the segment of the hn audience who'd have loved it most.

Plan9 is a project that does things very differently on purpose. A lot of things don't make sense at first, like the 3 finger mouse paradigm, plumbing, mainframe mentality. What I fear is that the more people from HN are introduced to it from a standpoint of "Hey look at this novelty, it just got a new release" the more people will find it, love it as I did, but then ignoring context, completely hold the community hostage with the curse of popularity to change everything we know and love about it to make it the same OS they left for plan9.

Younger devs with terrible ideas are capable enough now to implement things themselves, and I worry that with the miniscule amount of devwork it would take to make huge waves in the plan9 community, I can only hope that people with very shitty ideas dont jump in and make a splash because it'll be hard for the community to say no.

Plan9 is very unapologetic, has lots of rough edges, and 9 front specifically can ruffle some feathers with regard to content and imagery, like the copy of Mein Kampf being in every copy of the source code, im not saying it meant something, but that was our joke, and new people hated that. It could have been a goosebumps book but it'd meant the same. We're already seeing that being tamped down by those who don't understand the spirit behind it. You'll know I'm right if the only replies to this comment will be on the inflammatory parts, not the revolutionary parts.

So like I said. It's complicated seeing it on HN. On one hand I want the world to know this technology that sadly we left behind and seem hellbent on reinventing. On the other hand, a lot of you guys suck now, and are too capable for the limited amount of forethought you have.

I guess all I'm trying to say is, treat my baby right. I'm trusting you guys to enjoy it like the rest of us did.

Also please take this as gracefully as possible, but a lot of you have the worst ideas... like the absolute worst most misinformed, heart aint even in the right place, no forethought, just terrible ideas. The rest of you are fine. I'll take my downvotes in a to-go box, as usual.

[hresvelgr]

> So like I said. It's complicated seeing it on HN. on one hand I want the world to know this technology that sadly we left behind and seem hellbent on reinventing. On the other hand, a lot of you guys suck now, and are too capable for the amount of forethought you have.

First of all, as interesting and divergent as Plan 9 was, I think you overestimate it's potential for popularity, No doubt due to your seemingly fetishistic regard for it. I think the particular brand of HN user you are "worried" about is probably never going to be interested in contributing to the Plan 9 ecosystem, so you can relax knowing your "baby" will likely be left alone.

Secondly, I've been in a lot of hobbyist communities that have all gone through their respective changes over the years. It's this particular brand of high and mighty "you lack the necessary taste to appreciate this" kind of attitude that I have found most distasteful and counter-productive to these communities. The thing that kills these communities is business types trying to capitalise, and sanctimonious die-hards, not a bunch of newbies.

Let the kids have fun, stop being a fuddy duddy.

> I'll take my downvotes in a to-go box, as usual.

Take this too, ruminating might be a refreshing change of pace for you.

[aliqot]

Not the first time your entire argument has been made. You're probably right about me, but you're off the mark about the plan9 part. I've seen this happen repeatedly over the decades. Just off the top of the head, we've seen this in Linux multiple times, before that it was the WWW, and it will happen yet again in plan9. All I can say is "just watch" and hope to God above I'll be proven wrong.

In a world where we are currently reinventing the mainframe and thinclient model, it's not hard to imagine that like fashion, tech also is cyclical. We dont say mainframe, we say cloud, we don't say thinclient, we say mobile.

It sounds like a lot of dude-trust-me, but imagine that it is possible somebody out there, maybe a very passionate neckbeard on some forum might just have an intimate history with plan9 and have a reason to feel this way before you go refuting them with JUST enough facts about their tone and delivery to fool people into thinking you're right, because you're not. .. when it comes to plan9. You've pretty much nailed my personality though, im probably that person you're describing, which I should work on, thank you. I'll accept that.

The kids are everything that's wrong with this world, and it's not their fault, they're a product of our example. I can only hope they don't squelch the 1% among them from getting their oddball ideas and opinions out there, because that's how we got here.

Make a note, you have one coffee on me, should we cross paths. Though we disagree today I can tell you're alright.

[hresvelgr]

> It sounds like a lot of dude-trust-me, but imagine that it is possible somebody out there, maybe a very passionate neckbeard on some forum might just have an intimate history with plan9 and have a reason to feel this way before you go refuting them with JUST enough facts about their tone and delivery to fool people into thinking you're right, because you're not.

While I made my points separately, together it does spin my argument as being "right" when the whole is perhaps not, I will concede that. I guess like you said, time will tell what's to come. I am also inclined to believe you are who you say you are.

I mainly take issue with gatekeeping, and I make a stink about it when I see it. The more positive variant I endorse is initiation. Instead of "you know nothing, go away" I'd rather see: "you know nothing, let me teach you the ways." Granted it's quite a feat to initiate an anonymous mass on the internet. Certainly not for the sane or faint of heart.

> Make a note, you have one coffee on me, should we cross paths. Though we disagree today I can tell you're alright.

You are too. I sympathise, I really do. The little corners we carve for ourselves are precious in their own way. Even when they change, perhaps for the better, we still grieve the past.

[MisterTea]

> like the copy of Mein Kampf being in every copy of the source code

It was an over the top political gag in response to the original labs people inserting a copy of the gettysburg address in /lib. It was removed as the gag was lost on most people.

[smcl]

I guess whoever inserted it probably didn't quite anticipate the rise in neo-nazism and the far-right in recent years? Like before 2016 it's an edgy joke that'd make most people roll their eyes at worst if they know the context. Afterwards, and particularly after Charlottesville, regardless of the intent it does look like a very particular and sinister kind of statement.

[MisterTea]

The submitter was indeed very young and naive. The offending text was removed well before 2016.

[aliqot]

Unrelated to this topic, but tangential: I believe the first step in repeating history is to forget it happened. Being human is a continual process of error-driven development.

[smcl]

That moment may come in the future but I don’t think anyone in Europe or the USA is ignorant of what the Nazis did, and in fact the guys I mentioned (Charlottesville) seem to be pretty openly sympathetic towards nazi ideologies

[hulitu]

They are. Those things have become a tabu. There are some "official" naratives about this and that's all. In the end, only the nazis have something to win.