[dont__panic]

  Myth 1: Users Are Deserting Facebook

  ..The problem with this narrative is that Meta is still adding
  users: the company is up to 2.93 billion Daily Active Users
  (DAUs), an increase of 50 million, and 3.71 billion Monthly
  Active Users (MAUs), an increase of 60 million..

I've been wondering about this for a while now: who are these people who are still using Facebook every day? All of my family has reduced facebook usage over the last few years because fewer and fewer people post meaningful content. And as more friends and family leave facebook entirely, I've noticed more and more family members who don't check their news feed at all -- they'll just occasionally respond to Facebook Messages.

Is Meta combining DAU numbers between Instagram, Facebook, and Whatsapp? Because I'm sure those Whatsapp numbers go up and up, since it's the default method of communication in a huge number of countries.

I know that my anecdotal experience isn't necessarily reality. But it's getting hard to ignore the fact that many friends and family have essentially abandoned Facebook and Instagram, to the point that these services aren't being used meaningfully by my friends and family any more.

Maybe developing countries are still growing userbases? Or maybe Meta's "DAU" definition just doesn't capture the slippage from "hooked on the news feed" to "responds to a message once per day"?

[nineplay]

> Who are these people who are still using Facebook every day?

Me. Most everyone I know. Move from the tech bubble to the suburban parent bubble and I think you'll that nothing is replacing FB anytime soon. The school pages are there, the kid's clubs and activities and team pages are all there. The neighborhood pages are all there, NextDoor exists of course but it tends to be poor imitation of the FB group.

I know what stereotypes exist but I also don't see toxic Karens, nasty open bigoty and racism, or lying political propaganda. Maybe it's just not a SoCal thing? Or maybe I am a toxic racist Karen and I'm blind to it? Today is full of cute Halloween photos, reports on last weekend's high school sports team's results ( our marching band won the regionals!), and not much else. If there's a vicious underbelly than I am blind to it.

You get out of FB what you put in. The ads I see are all geeky T-shirts and practical cross body bags ( I haven't found a good one yet )

I find reddit horribly toxic and depressing and am surprised it doesn't get more attention. The front page tells us only that we are doomed, our country is doomed, our planet is doomed, and reminds us of how much smarter we are than everyone else. I really wish I had the self control to stay away from it.

Stereotype alert: I do know some parents who've dropped FB but it is always the dads. It's often easier for them as they rarely have to keep track of what day is wacky hair day.

[zdragnar]

Rural countryside in the Midwest here. Our dog decided to escape and go on an adventure a few weeks back. The person who found him went to the local Facebook group for lost dogs and after not seeing him there for a few hours finally called animal control (where we, as not really Facebook users, had reported him missing).

It's pretty wild what an alternate reality Facebook creates when you don't use it but others do.

[dont__panic]

I used to use Facebook, but the rampant ads and dark patterns drove me away. I can't stand FB pushing video content in my feed. Some ads are fine (sidebar-only preferably), I understand that you have to pay the bills somehow... but I really don't like "recommended" posts in my feed. The lack of autonomy drove me away.

> Today is full of cute Halloween photos, reports on last weekend's high school sports team's results ( our marching band won the regionals!), and not much else. If there's a vicious underbelly than I am blind to it.

You mention that you notice the ads for geeky t-shirts and cross body bags (what are those?), but what about the recommended content? Do Stories and Reels not get in your way? Don't you miss content from school pagse, kids clubs, activities, and team pages because the algorithm decides that it would rather show you yet-another-meme-post?

I'm glad that Facebook seems to work for you. But it really sucks for those of us who don't agree with Facebook's business practices, because you contribute to a network effect that actively excludes non-users. I don't like Facebook's dark patterns, their advertising, or their "recommended" posts. So I choose not to use it. It's absolute bollocks that I can't easily look at community event pages as a non-user, and it only makes me happier that I've opted out of such a toxic, exclusive community.

[nineplay]

> Do Stories and Reels not get in your way? Don't you miss content from school pagse, kids clubs, activities, and team pages because the algorithm decides that it would rather show you yet-another-meme-post?

Oh Christ yes, but if I stayed away from everything where dark algorithms decide what BS to show me I'd end up a digital hermit ( except for HN of course )

Still on my list of 'sites with infuriating un-asked-for content", I don't think FB makes my top 5. Amazon is first, of course, with its "sponsored" products. youtube, reddit, apple TV on content I have _paid_ for. FB pales in comparison

[dont__panic]

Do you use adblock of any kind? It's interesting to me that the very services you call out -- youtube and reddit specifically -- are services I frequently use because the dark patterns and ads don't effect me much due to ad blocking.

Meanwhile Facebook is essentially immune to content blocking, which made it a very obvious problem for me even years ago.

I have turned into a bit of a digital hermit, though.

[wwweston]

> Do Stories and Reels not get in your way?

I've made a pretty concerted effort to avoid clicking on them. I might click on one once every two months. Over time this seems to have resulted in modest levels of presentation.

OTOH -- this July my feed showed me an old friend's daughter had posted "Miss you mom" on friend's wall, and I thought "that's odd, they don't live far away." So I clicked on friend's profile to see that her funeral was the week before and then saw five months of posts documenting her discovery of an aggressive cancer that had killed her. Nowhere in there had FB shown me any of them.

That's an algorithm failure if there ever was one, though of course there's no way to communicate that to FB and likely no internal incentives to care, so there's really nothing to do but remember that unless you're the customer, the feed will only be about where you'd like to direct your attention to the minimum degree they have to engage you in order to keep selling their privilege to direct your attention.

[JoeJonathan]

I’m glad you pointed out that Reddit gets a free pass. Aside from the fact that r/TheDonald flourished there, r/all regularly shows videos of people dying and men smacking women (r/pussypassdenied). There’s also a weird, self-congratulatory sense of community that leads to mob politics and pile ons in a way distinct from Facebook and Twitter. I think it means something that people identify as redditors, and not, say, as tweeters.

[nr2x]

Good for niche topics though, you can build a pretty nice feed and avoid the front page mess.

[Joking_Phantom]

It's trivial that nice communities exist on Facebook. Positive, engaged people build good communities, regardless of platform or technology.

The same distributions of haves and have-nots exist on any platform. Reddit/Facebook/Instagram/TikTok/everything else are composed of an ever changing and uncountable number of communities, a few of which are bound to be good because of the continuous efforts of their members, and everything else is varying degrees of toxicity, narcissism, hatred, and every other negative trait you can think of.

If someone stereotypes you as a "toxic racist Karen" because you mainly use Facebook, it seems to follow the same reasoning behind why you might perceive Reddit as "horribly toxic and depressing." You get out of X what you put in.

[nineplay]

I agree, reddit is my most destructive addiction. I like some communities but I always end up on the front page doom-scrolling. I'm just surprised it always get a pass when it comes to the negative impacts of social media.

[nr2x]

I’m in South Bay, no parents or school use FB. Some WhatsApp, but that’s it.

[ernestipark]

I think we have to adjust our understanding of what 'using' Facebook means.

Despite its flaws FB has done a good job of layering useful products on top of the social network despite the original purpose of Facebook seemingly losing popularity. In my circles, the typical news feed and posting updates part of Facebook is pretty much dead, and I never use those features personally anymore. BUT Marketplace, Messenger, and niche groups are all very valuable. It's changed from 'something cool' to a utility.

Also, given these DAUs are measured in billions and there are users all over the globe, chances are usage in different parts of the world and for different ages and demographics looks incredibly different.

[dont__panic]

Interesting point. I also found this passage intriguing:

  The problem with this line of reasoning is that Meta’s
  capital expenditures are directly focused on both of
  the two main reasons for alarm: TikTok and ATT. That
  is because the answer to both challenges is more AI,
  and building up AI capacity requires a lot of capital
  investment.

This makes it clear that Facebook/Meta's overlords don't think of these products as a social network; instead, they think of them as a conduit to show people ads. Ads recommended by AI.

With growing concern over censorship, political manipulation, and platform moderation, I wonder how long the "AI-recommended ad" cash cow can continue. You can only show people so many political and gambling app ads before they stop using your product or run out of time/money.

[nr2x]

And yet viagra spam still exists. If the distribution cost approaches zero you can still find that 0.00000001% of hopeless idiots.

[wwweston]

> who are these people who are still using Facebook every day?

I'm using it pretty frequently, often daily. It may not be the place where everyone is posting their frequent updates, but I still have hundreds of acquaintances who post periodic updates (or read mine), a few circles who use FB events to manage announcements/invites, and FB serves as well as it ever has as a Rolodex.

I get that people get cranky about their feeds and/or concern about psychological or social effects of social media, but FB isn't at all unique here. Any social media you aren't the customer of is going to make its money either directing/selling your attention (which means messing with the feed) or data about your attention, and so naturally most do and there's not really an alternative, there's just a perception of what's fashionable among a given circle.

[amalcon]

Marketplace is part of it. In many regions, it's essentially replaced Craigslist for buying/selling random things like lawn equipment and children's toys.

Beyond that, I think it's pretty well documented (and also stands to reason) that the growth is mostly in communities with previously low penetration. If all of your family has reduced facebook usage over the last few years, that means you are in a community with previously high penetration. Of course you won't be able to anecdotally observe growth.

[Ekaros]

I have an account but I can't remember last time I logged in.

Maybe it is users that are forced to use it to check some restaurants or likes Facebook page? And even then be annoyed about the popups...

[whoisjuan]

Groups and Marketplace are huge products. I presume they are larger or have become larger than the newsfeed.

[baby]

People in other countries. Also me and my friends.