[colinsane]

> The employer often doesn't realize for months that the employee wasn't as represented, and way overpaid.

that employee's coworkers and team members surely would realize how well the pay matches though. or at least, they could, wherever the employer makes that info public.

my own experience with internally-public compensation at a 70-engineer company: is that there's so much _error_ in setting salaries. i don't think my employer really cared if the salary they pay for equivalent work varies randomly by 20%: to them that's just the cost of doing business and they have enough margin to cover that. but when i see that my teammate, who's putting in literally 20-hr weeks and producing half the output as the rest of the team, is being paid 20% more than me? that's reason to feel that my employer isn't treating me fairly and to leave. that hurts my employer more than the 20% extra they're paying the other guy.

i felt like there was a catch-22 here: in theory erroneous salaries could be more quickly corrected if they were internally public. but it's risky to make salaries public before the employer is reasonably confident that they're accurate.

[WalterBright]

You don't have to leave. Just document the value you provide, and go negotiate. Yes, you can do that. I have.

> that hurts my employer more than the 20% extra they're paying the other guy.

I.e. there's your leverage. Go make your case. No excuses!

[colinsane]

i made my case. i pushed for negotiations. i presented the ultimatum as tactfully as i could manage. and i exercised that ultimatum.

i believe the company truly just did not have the resources to expend on getting everyone's salary as accurate as would take to make me happy. it was a flat organization, in such a way that only a handful of people were responsible -- on top of their other duties -- for the determination of salaries for those 70 engineers. i think they are on track to fixing this broadly, but just not in time for me.

[WalterBright]

Leaving was the right choice. It's the only power you need.

[ryandrake]

I've always hated the simplistic "Just negotiate, bro!" advice. I wish it came with more concrete tactics to use that work. I've never in my 20+ year career asked for more money from an employer and got it--no matter how many documents and facts I came in with.

Here's how it goes with existing companies:

[Me] Hi, I'd like a raise.

[Co] Nope.

[Me] OK, here are examples of the value I'm providing and how it's increased over time.

[Co] Your current salary accounts for this.

[Me] Other companies offer 20% more and I'm only asking for 10%.

[Co] ...

[Me] OK, I have an offer from the other company. Last chance.

[Co] Well... Bye?

Here's how it goes as a new hire:

[Co] Here is your offer letter with your salary, bonus, and equity. (it's 0.2% more than my current TC)

[Me] <gulp> I think the market rate should be much higher, based on my experience and skills.

[Co] We don't agree.

[Me] Can you be flexible with the equity?

[Co] No.

[Me] Can you offer a signing bonus?

[Co] No.

[Me] Can you be flexible with the base pay?

[Co] LOL No.

[Me] What about hours, time off flexibility, and so on...

[Co] Look, do you want the job or not? There's a line forming behind you, my dude.

I hate that a skill (negotiation) that is unrelated to my actual job has to be one of the primary drivers of my compensation.

[WalterBright]

Negotiation skills apply about everywhere in life. Not learning them can get very expensive.

> I have an offer from the other company

So take it!

> Can you be flexible with the base pay?

A better way is to make a counter-offer. May I recommend the book "Never Split The Difference" which has a lot of good information about negotiating. Remember your most important power is being able to walk away.