[WalterBright]

You don't have to leave. Just document the value you provide, and go negotiate. Yes, you can do that. I have.

> that hurts my employer more than the 20% extra they're paying the other guy.

I.e. there's your leverage. Go make your case. No excuses!

[colinsane]

i made my case. i pushed for negotiations. i presented the ultimatum as tactfully as i could manage. and i exercised that ultimatum.

i believe the company truly just did not have the resources to expend on getting everyone's salary as accurate as would take to make me happy. it was a flat organization, in such a way that only a handful of people were responsible -- on top of their other duties -- for the determination of salaries for those 70 engineers. i think they are on track to fixing this broadly, but just not in time for me.

[WalterBright]

Leaving was the right choice. It's the only power you need.

[ryandrake]

I've always hated the simplistic "Just negotiate, bro!" advice. I wish it came with more concrete tactics to use that work. I've never in my 20+ year career asked for more money from an employer and got it--no matter how many documents and facts I came in with.

Here's how it goes with existing companies:

[Me] Hi, I'd like a raise.

[Co] Nope.

[Me] OK, here are examples of the value I'm providing and how it's increased over time.

[Co] Your current salary accounts for this.

[Me] Other companies offer 20% more and I'm only asking for 10%.

[Co] ...

[Me] OK, I have an offer from the other company. Last chance.

[Co] Well... Bye?

Here's how it goes as a new hire:

[Co] Here is your offer letter with your salary, bonus, and equity. (it's 0.2% more than my current TC)

[Me] <gulp> I think the market rate should be much higher, based on my experience and skills.

[Co] We don't agree.

[Me] Can you be flexible with the equity?

[Co] No.

[Me] Can you offer a signing bonus?

[Co] No.

[Me] Can you be flexible with the base pay?

[Co] LOL No.

[Me] What about hours, time off flexibility, and so on...

[Co] Look, do you want the job or not? There's a line forming behind you, my dude.

I hate that a skill (negotiation) that is unrelated to my actual job has to be one of the primary drivers of my compensation.

[WalterBright]

Negotiation skills apply about everywhere in life. Not learning them can get very expensive.

> I have an offer from the other company

So take it!

> Can you be flexible with the base pay?

A better way is to make a counter-offer. May I recommend the book "Never Split The Difference" which has a lot of good information about negotiating. Remember your most important power is being able to walk away.