[Defitio]

In my opinion plenty of people just use kids as a scapegoat for meaning of life.

My question would be why you value your kids time more than bouldern?

Because you made them? Because they consume so much time with them?

Or because you are just better in being a parent and biological getting satisfaction out of it?

Unfortunately for me I'm not sure if I would end like you or the other poster who regrets it sometimes.

Also I'm not sure if I want to force another/new human through my experiences like going to school etc.

In dune the king new/realized that he can't do what is necessary but has to prepare his son to do so.

I have the opposite though: perhaps I need to not to have kids to stop the cycle of creating meaning through procreation.

Yes I overthink stuff and one way or the other I still think becoming a parent would be a life changing experience but besides all of the normal thoughts climate change comes on top of it.

[lee]

> Or because you are just better in being a parent and biological getting satisfaction out of it?

It is totally this. We are biological creatures and we cannot escape that.

Love, sex, friendships, relationships, parenting, happiness, and so forth are all aspects of our biology. We are not automatons living a purely rational life. Satisfaction in life depends on those biological mechanisms and shouldn't be seen through a purely rational lens.

Kids aren't a scapegoat for a meaningful life. They do absolutely make life meaningful. Much in the same way eating a delicious meal brings pleasure. We depend on our biological wiring to feel such things.

[skyhvr]

Thank you for this poignant reminder.

[Defitio]

Yes but is it fair to the new human?

Oversimplified: would you be okay to create a new human if you know they have only 100 days to life? 5 years? 20? Suffering in school, sleep problems etc etc?

Just because it's evolutionary pre programmed?

[amag]

Not everyone who struggles in life would rather not live. I think it's quite arrogant to contemplate whether living is worth it for another human being.

[juniperplant]

I find it arrogant to force a human being to life, especially at this time. I question everyday the fact that somebody else decided for me that life is somewhat worth living.

[Defitio]

When I'm the maker of another human it's definitely worth considering before if it will be worth to do so

[amag]

Even so, that person will not be you. Even if they will go through exactly the same things you've been through they may not have the same experience. You cannot know if it was worth it for them.

I think it's fine if people don't have kids, I just find the reasoning "what if they suffer, etc" a cop-out. You cannot know that beforehand and even if they suffer, they may still find meaning in life.

[logical_ferry]

Last several replies you gave are such high quality. I hate it when people overintellectualize such obvious things like having a kid. I would have flipped out at the other poster, but you stuck in there and gave some really good points. Awesome.

[Defitio]

Regret emotions etc. are only possible when you are alive.

Missery etc also can only be felt when you are alive.

You clearly don't take any responsibility at all otherwise I'm lost on how easy you just dismiss concerns.

[dmbche]

Well, if you believe that life is worth being experienced as it's pretty unique as far as experiences goes, it's normal to expect to be okay with giving that to your child isn't it? I think most people think of life as a net positive.

There's a song where I'm from with a funny line about that - Life is short, but it's long in small stretches.

[ciphol]

When I was a teenager I thought kids were a pyramid scheme. If your life isn't worthwhile, then what point is there in creating another life whose worth will be equally questionable? This sounds like your "scapegoat for meaning of life" idea.

What I eventually gradually realized was that the kid might just be another person, but you're not just creating a person, you're also creating a relationship with that person. And it's a unique kind of relationship, in some ways more intimate than any relationship you can have with anyone else including your romantic partner. (Which adult runs with beaming face to hug you whenever they see you come home from work and you know it's all totally genuine?) I'm not an expert on what has objective meaning in life, but I'm pretty sure that deep relationships like this are one of the stronger candidates.

[skinnymuch]

If you can edit this. Edit out the “you” to “people”. It doesn’t look like an attack then. I see your comment is greying out so it’s getting downvotes.

Having diff perspectives is cool so it would be unfortunate for yours to get flagged because it seems too aggressive.

[neweroldguy]

I think your concern (will I be one who is fulfilled, or one who regrets?) is reasonable, but in fact for many people the answer is “yes”. You’ll often feel fulfilled. Occasionally you’ll regret.

Also, “escape goat”, while an amazing phrase, should be “scapegoat”.

[skinnymuch]

Escape goat is such a better term haha. I wish it was a legit synonym

[HideousKojima]

>I have the opposite though: perhaps I need to not to have kids to stop the cycle of creating meaning through procreation.

You won't stop the cycle though, others who do actually have kids will simply continue it, and the single biggest way in which you could have had and influence on the future of the world and the human race will have been eliminated.

And that's before you get into any religious implications of having and raising children.

[skinnymuch]

Being wealthy or powerful probably has more influence on the world and humans than having kids.

[HideousKojima]

Nonsense, on a long enough timescale your descendents will intermarry with other people, and the wealthy and powerful of future generations will be your descendents. Dave Thomas may have had a major influence on the US with his restaurants and charitable foundations, but if he had never been born in the first place he wouldn't have been able to accomplish any of that. I chose Thomas as an example because he's a literal orphan and his adoptive family wasn't particularly wealthy either as far as I can tell.

[skinnymuch]

I agree maybe that’ll happen. Maybe it won’t. OTOH, as society is now, being rich and/or powerful can definitely influence things and almost all influences of society happen by the rich and powerful.

In my pov, saying having kids is the most important way to influence the world unfortunately provides an excuse to prop up the status quo of incredibly imbalanced power and wealth structures.

It also seems a bit mean to posit having children is the way to most influence society. Not every one can responsibly and properly raise children. Or have the financial foundation

[Defitio]

At least I would stop it for my gen pool.

I'm not responsible for potential suffering of others.