[prange]

Did you know that GCC take an unknown time to download, and forces you to accept a license?

I think it’s pretty common knowledge that Macs are sold as consumer machines that don’t include a full tool chain out of the box. Guess what - it’s free to download and sometimes it gets updates.

It’s hard to understand why you are making such a fuss about installing developer tools on a developer machine.

Sometimes I find I have to install gcc or clang or llvm on a Linux machine in order to install some other package. Why would I moan about this?

[dmitriid]

> Did you know that GCC take an unknown time to download

Why do I need GCC for git?

> Macs are sold as consumer machines that don’t include a full tool chain out of the box.

It wasn't that long ago that Macs had server software out of the box.

Still doesn't explain why I need to download 670 MB of something to install otherwise separate tools.

And why the hell things like git break when XCode upgrades a version

[prange]

> Why do I need GCC for git?

You don’t - but you do need it on Linux to install certain other developer tools. There is nothing unusual about having to install developer tools.

> It wasn't that long ago that Macs had server software out of the box.

So what? Are you saying you didn’t realize MacOS is now aimed at consumers?

[dmitriid]

> There is nothing unusual about having to install developer tools.

And yet, only in MacOS I need to install 670 MB of junk to install, say, git. Why?

> Are you saying you didn’t realize MacOS is now aimed at consumers?

This doesn't explain why I need to install 670 MB of tools to install separate developer tools that are not even Apple's.

[prange]

> And yet, only in MacOS I need to install 670 MB of junk to install, say, git. Why?

With all due respect, it’s very unclear why you are experiencing so much pain over this. It really isn’t a big deal.

[dmitriid]

It's very unclear why you are defending this. Especially when it's a very common source of pain. E.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33168346

[prange]

That’s a link to someone facing a different issue that it’s fairly clear most people aren’t experiencing.

I agree that if there is a bug that causes a download to get stuck in a loop, it should be a priority for Apple to fix it.

However that isn’t what you are arguing.

[MichaelCollins]

> Did you know that GCC [...] forces you to accept a license?

No it doesn't. The GPL is only relevant if you plan to distribute GCC, and you are never made to affirm your agreement when downloading, installing or using GCC. GCC never prompts you with any "click agree to continue" bullshit.

[prange]

The GPL governs use of the licensed software. What you are planning is no relevance. You are limited to what the GPL allows and no more.

This is no different from Apple’s license, which also allows you to use the software freely unless you want to redistribute it.

Prompt or no prompt, if you use GPL software, you are forced to accept the GPL.

And really? Your complaint is a click to agree to a software license? Why does that upset you so much?

[MichaelCollins]

> Prompt or no prompt, if you use GPL software, you are forced to accept the GPL.

No prompt, no forced acceptance. You are simply wrong. The GPL permits all use, it has no restrictions on use. It restricts only distribution.

> This is no different from Apple’s license, which also allows you to use the software freely unless you want to redistribute it.

You are wrong. You didn't read Xcode's license. I did, it places substantial restrictions on how and where you can use Xcode, not just restrictions on distribution.

Do yourself a favor and read this document, since you obviously have already agreed to it without reading it: https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/xcode.pdf

[prange]

Limits on distribution are limits on use. If you don’t understand that, I suggest you Google for some discussions about why many people don’t use GPL’s software - it’s because the limits on distribution affect their usage.

Fair point about the XCode license being more restrictive than I said.