[inglor_cz]

Go to Sevilla or Malaga and look around. Houses have old facades, people drive old cars, pavements have been last repaved 20 years ago and meeting a highly educated beggar is a common occurrence. That is not how a wealthy community looks like.

Spanish economy may be nominally big, but random folk in the streets do not seem well off. The contrast to, say, Austria or Denmark, where most of the population seems to live just fine, is big.

My friend, a nurse in Madrid, makes less than 1000 euro net. She and her son live in a small Franco era apartment where one of the tiny rooms does not even have a window.

[yrgulation]

Nurses are underpaid everywhere in europe. Its a common issue with public healthcare systems.

[inglor_cz]

True, but at this point the only thing that prevents her from moving to Czechia to make better money is the fact that her son likes Madrid and she does not want to uproot him.

That would be unthinkable some 20-25 years ago. Spain back then was, relatively taken, much richer than any post-Communist country and your living standard would have gone measurably down if you moved from Spain to Czechia.

[yrgulation]

I dont know why it surprises you that Czechia is more developed than Spain. Romania for instance has overtaken Greece and will overtake Portugal in the near future. Hungary is also doing rather well let alone Poland. Without wars those countries are returning to their natural state.

But that still doesnt mean Spain is poor. It just means other countries progressed. And many times its the progress and growth that matters as opposed to stagnation which feels bad. The reason i mentioned that eu countries are richer than others is to put things into perspective.

Europeans are used to growth and thats the issue, there isnt any as of recently. Its just germany flouting its economic dick in everyone’s face while the rest of the eu has to follow rules that dont benefit them.

[ricardobayes]

Hungary is doing so well it's about to progress into the middle ages. Not just economically, as it's closing many pools, restaurants and hotels from Nov 1st, but a few months ago actually brought back a feudal title to address high-ranking government officials.

[yrgulation]

Idk i drove around hungary the other week and they still had lights on and roads with cars. If you believe what the media says they would be shooting arrows at people and cannibalising each other by now. I dont agree with their policies or their government but i dont think hungary is doing that bad. For now.

[inglor_cz]

It surprises me because it goes against my lived experience. When I grew up in late Communist and early post-Communist Czechoslovakia and later Czechia, it was absolutely taken for granted that we are poorer than Spain and have much lower buying power. As late as 2004, I felt it in my wallet when I stayed in Barcelona for a cryptographic workshop - everything was so much more expensive than back home.

IDK what do you mean by "natural state". There are too many counterexamples. Ireland or Norway used to be comparably poor countries in the early 1900s, Slovakia was seriously underdeveloped etc. What is the "natural state" of Spain in your opinion? An Arab colony, a center of a huge empire, or a military dictatorship? The country has gone through so many iterations during its existence.

"Poor" is a word that has two meanings. No one in their sane mind would call Spain absolutely poor, like Niger or Afghanistan is. But relative poverty is psychologically damaging too. If other countries progress faster than you, you are slowly moving towards the end of the wealth distribution in your common club. And people don't like that.