[loves_mangoes]

I did a volumetric dilution of desoxyn crystals, in an attempt to find some alternative tool to manage my ADHD, as a complement to the very limited solutions available in my country.

The scary thing about desoxyn is that it's thoroughly unregulated, so you have to watch for impurities or contamination. Especially scary would be fentanyl hotspots, which can happen if the chemical was improperly handled during packaging.

It's a very scary thing to be attempting, and I've actually had the experiment sitting for several months in my kitchen without touching it, due to how slightly alarming the whole prospect is, but my natural curiosity and engineering instinct tends to win in the end, when I feel sufficiently prepared.

So far I've slowly ramped up to a 40mg dose of oral metamphetamine and I'm still not consciously feeling anything that couldn't be attributed to placebo, so I'm starting to consider scraping the current batch, sending it to a lab for an expensive analysis, and potentially trying again a few months from now, if I have the energy for it.

It's a pretty slow-going project since I have to prepare for 12h of potential effects of each dose, and ramp up slowly due to uncertain purity, but the potential payoff of not having horrible executive dysfunction is pretty interesting.

[adwi]

I was told recently by a person doing addiction outreach that the biggest spike in overdose deaths he sees is from methamphetamine being spiked with fentanyl.

Not going to judge the plan, but please make sure to have a Narcan (naloxone) nearby, familiarize yourself with its use and do the same for any friends/family/neighbors that might be in near proximity of you. If you can’t afford it there are organizations that can provide you one for free or lower cost.

[loves_mangoes]

Thank you, I appreciate particularly all attempts at harm reduction, that's very thoughtful and kind of you.

Narcan (naloxone) is a wonderful thing, that I wish was more broadly available. I would still worry that sometimes people are not able to self-administer Narcan, so in addition fentanyl test strips are a very good idea to also have. They're a little false-positive heavy, but that seems better than the alternative.

[Tenoke]

what do you mean unregulated desoxyn? Desoxyn is a brand name. Are you talking about street meth? If yes, then 1. those are usually cut and much weaker so dosage needs to be higher, however 2. You can at least do a quick acetone wash it to remove a lot of impurities which will also make it stronger per mg and both be less cut and closer dosage-wise.

[loves_mangoes]

You're right. I use it as a euphemism, I think because the stigma is so strong even I feel uncomfortable writing it. It is in fact mail-order "street" metamphetamine from an online reseller.

My understanding is that the production of metamphetamine has increased in quality over time, so that it should be possible to get something reasonably potent with a little trial and error. The idea is to optimize both on cost and size, because if it turns out to be viable as a tool, having to order smaller packages less frequently should contribute to reducing risks.

On point 2, I'm aware of the acetone wash, I think that's definitely worth doing (though it can't wash every impurity). I haven't attempted it yet due to fire safety concerns, and because I see it more as an optimization I can make down the line, if this whole insane experiment turns out to be practically viable as a potential tool in my toolbox.

[Tenoke]

> the production of metamphetamine has increase

The production has increased but as far as I know it's fairly easy to make so there's a ton of small mediocre operations making it and also there's always incentives to make it weigh more for cheap.

[WORMS_EAT_WORMS]

Is your ADHD so bad it’s worth trying all this?

[andai]

Is that a rhetorical question? The fact they're trying it indicates the answer is yes!

On a serious note, I'd just like to emphasize how debilitating this condition can be. You can know what you want, know what you need to do to get it, and simply be unable to get going (or keep going), for months, for years... and the only thing you hear from others is how lazy you are and need to work harder.

As a ground-level example, you can have a task on your mind all day, to the point where you can't relax or do anything else productive, but still get nowhere with it.

I had some (limited) success with microdosing LSD, which I tried because I do not tolerate stimulants well. At its peak effectiveness, it became literally impossible to procrastinate because I would just be consciously, excruciatingly aware of trying to avoid a task. The only way to get it off my mind would be to deal with it.

So for a time it was extremely effective for me. Also some nice bonuses were it made me much more friendly and social, and fond of physical exercise.

I stopped for various reasons including the legality, availability, difficulty of dosing correctly, and also it woke me up to some things happening in the world that are very unpleasant to be thinking about on a regular basis. I rather went back to my usual half-asleep state of mind.

[loves_mangoes]

>As a ground-level example, you can have a task on your mind all day, to the point where you can't relax or do anything else productive, but still get nowhere with it.

>I had some (limited) success with microdosing LSD, which I tried because I do not tolerate stimulants well. At its peak effectiveness, it became literally impossible to procrastinate because I would just be consciously, excruciatingly aware of trying to avoid a task. The only way to get it off my mind would be to deal with it.

This almost exactly matches my experience. I relate completely. A few months ago I spent about 6 hours trying and failing to do some basic everyday life task. As a last resort, in the evening, I took a small threshold amount of a psychedelic. I knew full trips in the past had filled me with determination, so I wanted to see where the lower bound was. Can a smaller push than a full trip get me past the barrier? It did work in the end, but only after a few more hours of trying and 964 lines of notes on why exactly it is that I'm not doing the very thing I want to be doing right now.

For me, psychedelics get me in an emotional mindset where I start caring and being a lot more emotionally involved than normal, eventually filling me with enough emotional determination to can overcome almost any mental barrier. The only problem being that some tasks can't very well be done when you're far from sober, it's not a very functional tool above light doses.

And unfortunately using it like that feels way too much like an unhealthy dependency to me. I could never accept using it as anything more than as a last resort, because psychedelics have so many side effects and changes in perception. If I started depending on tripping to do anything hard, I feel like that would be an addiction, and surrendering a small part of myself to replace it by a chemical.

I'm trying to explore other potential solutions that would work better for infrequent to semi-frequent use, even if I know I can always as a hail mary resort to psychedelics, and if nothing else worked that should get me to guilt trip myself into having the determination to attempt anything that needs doing.

[andai]

I don't know. I can relate to not wanting to be dependent on external factors or substances. But you wouldn't say the same thing to a diabetic who needs insulin, right?.

(Then again, some forms of diabetes can be "cured" (removing the need for external insulin) by a ketogenic diet. Then again you could say the diet is also an "external factor"...)

There seems to be this cultural issue around mental health problems, this stigma associated with them. You wouldn't tell someone in a wheelchair they just need to try harder to get up the stairs! But with brains that's basically what most people say.

On the other hand, neuroplasticity is real and it is amazing. The Woman Who Changed Her Brain is a great book on this subject. A lot of people get attached to a label that describes their current limitations and keep themselves in that box forever.

I was able to significantly increase my Conscientiousness (organization and work ethic) by consciously transforming my self-image. (ADHD can be very loosely defined as a pathologically low level of conscientiousness.)

This worked surprisingly well but it did require a constant level of effort to keep up the act, because I wad quite literally using my acting skills to be a person without ADHD. Same hardware, different software!

[loves_mangoes]

>But you wouldn't say the same thing to a diabetic who needs insulin, right?.

Yes, that's where I'm conflicted. At the same time that I try to pretend using psychedelics for ADHD would be an addiction, I'm actively seeking metamphetamine instead. Which doesn't exactly have a reputation as a non-addictive healthy substance to be self-medicating with.. I can see the idea that medication is medication and shouldn't be stigmatized.

Still, I think I feel that way because I can make a reasonable point about side-effects and how much therapeutic benefit I get vs impairment, in my personal experience. LSD is pretty effective, but for me (and this might not generalize) it works best when it's a full introspective trip where I'm going to have amplified emotions. Which is also where I'm most impaired and least able to interact with the rest of the world. If I compare that with the effects of stimulants for ADHD, at least in expectations they seem like a much more functional thing to be on, on a frequent or even daily basis.

Though I admit if microdosing works for some people, then that seems potentially just as good a medication, too.

>There seems to be this cultural issue around mental health problems, this stigma associated with them. You wouldn't tell someone in a wheelchair they just need to try harder to get up the stairs! But with brains that's basically what most people say.

For a long time I used to have had some strong bias against using any external help, instead just trying harder or trying to better myself through sheer force of will. I instinctively never liked the idea of depending on any medication, like it was a crutch. I was wrong, but I think there's still a bit of that instinct resisting treatment. You're completely right about the stigma existing, too.

I'll have to read The Woman Who Changed Her Brain. I've found one sort of mental trick that helps me get things done, but it's about getting into a mindspace where I have to admit to myself that procrastinating is wrong/makes no sense, until that forces me reject the wrongness out of a weird childish sense of right and wrong manifesting as determination. Probably no one else can relate to that part :) It borders on guilt-tripping or emotionally manipulating myself, and I'm only half happy with exploring that idea further.

Trying to transform your self-image sounds like a whole other thing, that's a really interesting idea! I feel like a small part of me would hate that, because that feels dangerously close to 'lying' to myself (which my childish intuitive sense of right and wrong frowns upon pretty strongly). But on the other hand I can absolutely see how that'd be effective. Self image is a powerful thing, and there's something about the mindset I'm in that completely changes how much difficulty I'll have starting things.

I'll definitely try to apply that idea, of acting like someone who might think differently and see themselves differently. I feel like I've spend many hours circling the problem, but I still haven't found some effective way of getting from a mindset where I'm facing strong mental barriers to a mindset where things are easier. But I have all the time in the world to try, so, thank you for sharing that idea =)

[andai]

So the way I did the self-image thing was, a bit of context first, I had been exploring this idea of infinite parallel universes and timelines. So every time you make a choice, you create two universes, two new life paths based on which choice you made. So there's also infinite parallel versions of you, each one having the personality and character shaped by the sum of their decisions (values) and experiences.

So after I did a personality test and realized that my repeated failures in life were likely the result of my 0th percentile ( ! ) conscientiousness (which the test humorously explained as "if you were one of 100 people in a room, 99 people would be more conscientious than you") I decided I either had to do something about it, or continue to suffer stupidly.

So I decided I would become conscientious through sheer force of will. But I realized that my entire identity was holding myself back. It felt like "not me" to act hardworking and well-organized, because I had become attached to the idea of not being that way. I'd be pretending to be "someone else".

So using this "parallel universe" version of me, that is highly conscientious, was a loophole. I imagined that our timelines were coming closer together until they merged and we became the same person. (I later learned that visualizing an ideal form (eg. a deity) and merging with it (to absorb its qualities) is used in the tantra tradition!)

From then on it still took constant conscious effort (in fact, that "constant vigilance" is actually a big part of conscientiousness--you don't let anything slip under the radar) but it was much easier after that powerful intention and visualization.

[biggerChris]

This guy.