[lioeters]

Fascinating to learn about Nalanda and Takshashila University.

About the latter ("considered to be one of the earliest universities in the world") and the revival of the university - I recently started reading a book called, The Shape of Ancient Thought: Comparative Studies in Greek and Indian Philosophies. I'm interested in learning about the influence of Buddhism on Greek (and later European) philosophy. I know almost nothing about the history of India, so it's been a fun educational journey.

The name of Chandragupta Maurya I hadn't heard before, but I see he is an important historical figure, the grandfather of Ashoka. And they're said to be from the Shakya family from which Gautama Buddha descended.

I've enjoyed your other thoughtful comments in this thread, even the controversial one criticising the "deliberately mistranslated" scriptures. I don't know the truth of the matter, but perhaps the translators simply lacked understanding? And I can see that some words are impossible to translate, with so much meaning lost or wrongly transformed in the process.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your knowledge and perspective. Especially this comment ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32929993 ) was very thought-provoking, one of my favorite comments ever on this forum.

[KrishnaShripad]

> I know almost nothing about the history of India, so it's been a fun educational journey.

As another commenter pointed out, if you want to know the history of India, there is no better scripture than the Mahabharata. Indians learn through stories about our Ancient Epics. That is the only thread that binds us to everything in the Civilization. Mahabharata is the core of it. As a kid, I was fascinated by the Mahabharata serial (old 1990s serial which is an abridged version of the actual scripture). It has English subtitles as well: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLa6CHPhFNfadNcnVZRXa6...

I have a feeling you'll enjoy it. :)

Once you know Mahabharata, you'll get really familiar with the lingo/jargon/terms that are commonly used in Dharmic scriptures. Then it becomes really easy to connect with the rest of your study of the Ancient Indian Civilization.

[lioeters]

Oh joy, I started watching the Mahabharata series you recommended.

Already I love the music, sitar and singing; how the title is in Sanskrit, English, and Arabic scripts; and how it starts with Time itself telling the story.

---

In another comment you mentioned Hiraṇyagarbha, or Brahmanda. What a beautiful concept that is. I've heard about the Cosmic Egg in other cultures, particularly in the Greek Orphic tradition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_egg#Greek/Orphic_mytholo...

---

What started my journey of curiosity about Greek and Indian cultural exchange, is that I grew up in Japan (it's literally my motherland) - and in Japanese temples, at the entrance are commonly seen two lions (stone statues) guarding the sacred space. I read that this symbolism came from ancient Egypt, Mesopotamia, Persia, via India to China and reached Japan.

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%8B%9B%E7%8A%AC

The lions are named "A" and "Un", corresponding to Aum, अहूँ.

---

By the way, would you mind if I wrote you an email? I'm enjoying our conversation, and have some philosophical questions. I didn't want to post my address here, to connect this account with my real-life identity, so I won't ask for yours - but maybe there's a temporary way to exchange info and get in touch, or a private way to give you my email (or vice versa)?

One thing I was curious to ask, about your thoughts on the differences and similarities between Hinduism and Buddhism. I imagine that's a big topic, haha.

[KrishnaShripad]

> By the way, would you mind if I wrote you an email? I'm enjoying our conversation, and have some philosophical questions. I didn't want to post my address here, to connect this account with my real-life identity, so I won't ask for yours - but maybe there's a temporary way to exchange info and get in touch, or a private way to give you my email (or vice versa)?

I won't mind at all. You can contact me at [e-mail]

---

> Already I love the music, sitar and singing; how the title is in Sanskrit, English, and Arabic scripts; and how it starts with Time itself telling the story.

That's great :) Yes the story is an emotional rollercoaster. The main storyline ends with Episode 94 (all Episodes after that are side stories that happened in the same timeline). This is the only show that captures the essence of Mahabharata. Still nothing can beat the actual scripture itself as it is more detailed (the show is abridged due to paucity of Time). Kisar Mohan Ganguli's Mahabharata is a decent translation (https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/maha/index.htm) which you can read once you finish the show.

> One thing I was curious to ask, about your thoughts on the differences and similarities between Hinduism and Buddhism. I imagine that's a big topic, haha.

It definitely is a big topic haha! More importantly, Hinduism is itself not the right word to describe the Religion. It is "Sanatan Dharma".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San%C4%81tana_Dharma

Within it is Vedanta (also called Uttara Mimamsa) which has multiple schools. The closest school of Vedanta that shares a lot of overlapping concepts with Buddhism is Advaita Vedanta. The other schools (like Vishishtadvaita and Tattvavada/Dvaita) deviate significantly.

---

> What started my journey of curiosity about Greek and Indian cultural exchange, is that I grew up in Japan (it's literally my motherland) - and in Japanese temples, at the entrance are commonly seen two lions (stone statues) guarding the sacred space. I read that this symbolism came from ancient Egypt, Mesopotamia, Persia, via India to China and reached Japan.

Yes that is right. In fact, a lot of the iconography and idols (especially in old Temples) in Japan has direct correlation with Dharmic deities. This page contains all comparisons:

http://hssjapan.org/hindu-gods-in-japan/

---

> In another comment you mentioned Hiraṇyagarbha, or Brahmanda. What a beautiful concept that is. I've heard about the Cosmic Egg in other cultures, particularly in the Greek Orphic tradition.

Yes all Ancient Civilizations had this concept permeated into their scriptures in one way or the other. You'll find a lot of similarities. One striking similarity is that of Noah's Ark and Lord Vishnu's "Matsya Avatar".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matsya

Both have pretty much the same story line except that in Matsya Avatar God himself incarnates to rescue the species on Earth.

[lioeters]

Thanks! Just to let you know, I wrote you at the given address. Looking forward to talking with you further.

[KrishnaShripad]

Thanks! I replied back from my personal address. Just took some extra time to formulate my thoughts. Hope you received it!

[KrishnaShripad]

> About the latter ("considered to be one of the earliest universities in the world") and the revival of the university - I recently started reading a book called, The Shape of Ancient Thought: Comparative Studies in Greek and Indian Philosophies. I'm interested in learning about the influence of Buddhism on Greek (and later European) philosophy.

Another fact: Emperor Chandragupta Maurya studied in this University under the tutelage of his teacher, Acharya Chanakya. Chanakya raises this boy (not born into Royal Lineage) and teaches him everything: politics, philosophy, economics, administration and handling weapons. Turns him into a Warrior. He eventually raises a formidable Army and attacks the Nanda Empire to oust Emperor Dhana Nanda (who was at that time extremely cruel. Alexander's Army mutinied at Beas (Hyphasis River) against attacking the Nanda Empire primarily because they heard about the barbarity of the Nandas and the vast Army that they commanded). Once Chandragupta defeats Dhana Nanda, he forms the Mauryan Empire and appoints Chanakya as the Prime Minister.

[KrishnaShripad]

> About the latter ("considered to be one of the earliest universities in the world") and the revival of the university - I recently started reading a book called, The Shape of Ancient Thought: Comparative Studies in Greek and Indian Philosophies. I'm interested in learning about the influence of Buddhism on Greek (and later European) philosophy. I know almost nothing about the history of India, so it's been a fun educational journey.

There is a lot of interconnect between Ancient Greek and Ancient Indian civilizations. Even when it comes to Demigods we have lots of similarities. Mostly because we interacted a lot (in spite of the Wars that we fought with each other, we eventually began to respect each others Civilizations more deeply). But with the fall of these Ancient Civilizations much of that relations that were built was lost. In a way, Dharmic Religions are the oldest surviving Religions... or dare I say oldest surviving Ancient Civilizations.

One of my biggest gripes with Western Indologists is that they classified Sanatan Dharma/Hinduism as Polytheist. Which is actually far from the Truth. We have only 1 God (the Brahman of the Vedas — the Supreme Being) with many Demigods (Devatas). Now depending on the school of Vedanta one follows, there are multiple interpretations of what God is (is God an independent entity — Tattvavada/Dvaita, we are all part of one God — Vishishtadvaita or I am God — Advaita). Yet all of it just boils down to either Monism or Monotheism. Not Polytheism. But as usual, the latter has stuck on due to wrong translations and will take a long time for it to be fixed.

Buddhism and Jainism on the other hand fall under Charvaka Philosophy. Charvakas deny the Supremacy of the Vedas as they believe in empirical evidence, direct perception alone. So even though we all come under the same umbrella term of "Dharmic Religions" there is a fundamental difference between both, which goes by the terminologies: Astika (Vedic) and Nastika (non-Vedic).

> The name of Chandragupta Maurya I hadn't heard before, but I see he is an important historical figure, the grandfather of Ashoka. And they're said to be from the Shakya family from which Gautama Buddha descended.

Yes you are right. Chandragupta Maurya was the Emperor of Ancient India and the founder of the Mauryan Empire. Emperor Ashoka is his descendent.

> I don't know the truth of the matter, but perhaps the translators simply lacked understanding?

This is a long story but it ties heavily to Evalengelical Christian Missionaries and providing them a fodder by misinterpreting many of the scriptures incorrectly (many Missionaries here use these translated scriptures to fool the local populace). It then becomes really easy to coax local populace in India (typically the lower castes), who due to various unfortunate circumstances (including discrimination they were subjected to in the past by upper castes, coupled with their own economic conditions), weren't versed in Sanskrit, to convert to Christianity or other Abrahamic Religions.

I have no issues with people converting as that is their individual preference/right but I don't want wrongly translated scriptures to be used as fodder for such conversions. I am more worried about these translations gaining a life of its own and cementing itself as the true translations winning over actual translations that was passed down through generations by our Ancestors. I want to preserve this culture/tradition as I feel it holds value to people on Earth and for future generations to research/introspect/learn from. Irrespective of whether they find value in it or not. Irrespective of whether it is perfect, faulty or downright nonsense. It should be looked at as preservation of Ancient Culture/Traditions and not be lost in the annals of Time.

Also, wrong translations builds animosity between groups. People here are converting not out of some profound wisdom or philosophical enlightenment but out of a hatred for the Religion they belonged to. This sort of brainwashing is going on every single day in India.

Very few who bothered to do their own independent research and figure out that the translations are wrong reconvert back.

This is not healthy for a society IMHO. Especially if conversions are forced or happen out of misinformation/animosity, it just ends up creating bad blood, regrets (once you realize you have been taken for a ride) and even divisiveness leading to communal rifts.

So I see it as my moral duty to set things right when I see wrong translations. Even if the World is against me. And I know I am not alone in this endeavour.

> Especially this comment ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32929993 ) was very thought-provoking, one of my favorite comments ever on this forum.

Thank you so much for your kind words! Means a lot!

[alexvoda]

> Very few who bothered to do their own independent research and figure out that the translations are wrong reconvert back.

To whom are Dharmic religions bleeding followers? Other religions or ireligion? Is conversion happening between the Dharmic religions? Any idea about percentages related to conversions?

[KrishnaShripad]

> To whom are Dharmic religions bleeding followers? Other religions or ireligion? Is conversion happening between the Dharmic religions? Any idea about percentages related to conversions?

Mostly to Abrahamic religions. For Christianity at least you can check the Joshua Project where they have complete statistics of souls harvested: https://joshuaproject.net/countries/IN

You can sort by "Progress Scale" to see the rate of conversions.

> Is conversion happening between the Dharmic religions?

Yes this also happens regularly where Hindus convert to Buddhism and vice-versa. No statistics for this unfortunately.

> ireligion

I don't know the statistics about how many are atheists/agnostic. However, they don't face any discrimination for their viewpoints and many identify themselves as Hindu too (as the word Hindu is not just used as a Religious construct but also to signify culture you belong to). Many even take part in Religious festivities (however odd it might sound to you) as for them it is more a celebration/festival/communal gathering than accepting existence of a Creator/Deity. That flexibility has always been there since Ancient times.

[alexvoda]

> For Christianity at least you can check the Joshua Project where they have complete statistics of souls HARVESTED: https://joshuaproject.net/countries/IN

> You can sort by "Progress Scale" to see the rate of conversions.

That is just insidious. It is Sith or Borg like behavior.

[KrishnaShripad]

Yep. They even have "Harvest Information Standards": https://hisregistries.org/

Documentation on how to collect demographic data: https://hisregistries.org/wp-content/uploads/filebase/rop/RO...

Even an FAQ: https://hisregistries.org/wp-content/uploads/filebase/rop/RO...

And a standards process: https://hisregistries.org/wp-content/uploads/filebase/standa...

The entire mechanism is slick, polished and well co-ordinated. Everyone is involved in the process: politicians, police, pastors, NGOs and it probably goes all the way to the Vatican (this is probably a conspiracy theory but can't be ruled out). Most of the donations come from foreign contributions. The modus operandi is typically to create flyers that talk about famine/hunger/floods/earthquakes/AIDS or some infectious disease ravaging third-world countries (think Africa, Asian countries) and solicit donations from gullible citizens of First World countries who naturally do not suspect it to be used for anything nefarious. These donations rake in millions of dollars.

Then these donations are routed through NGOs in India (which thankfully the Government of India cracked down on in 2015-16). They are then routed through various pastors/missionaries who "Preach the Gospel" (code for bribe the economically downtrodden). The more "souls harvested" the higher the share of donation that these pastors/missionaries get. So it is high incentive, high stakes game for them. Every soul they harvest they get anywhere from $3000-$8000. The biggest slice of the pie is for those who can convert upper-caste Brahmins. However, they mostly target villages/tribal areas. The last information (dollar amounts) I cannot substantiate with proof (as most of it happens under the table) but I have seen it with my own eyes (worked with someone who I witnessed engaging in this — he had forgotten that I was in the same room). So take the last piece of information as purely anecdotal as I do not know how wide spread this is and if the rates are the same all across India.

If the conversions were happening because of philosophical/ideological acceptance it wouldn't be an issue at all. This is different. This can be classified as a form of corruption.

If you are interested, you can check "Confessions of an Ex-Christian: Esther Dhanraj" which details the modus operandi of this conversion racket.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNdgGttyvyA