[throwaway-blue2]

As I understand it modules support goes beyond just compilers - yes you need support there, but also in libraries (std library still is still not available as a module yet but apparently in progress) as well as build tools (CMake, Bazel, etc.).

People are complaining because it’s 2022 and support for modules is seemingly not there or incomplete in all these places, and modules are talked about in some C++ communities as if they’re a thing that is actually usable (for example Bjarne’s talk at Cppcon a few days ago).

[humanrebar]

> People are complaining because it’s 2022 and support for modules is seemingly not there or incomplete in all these places...

So they're complaining on the internet about not getting free stuff fast enough.

They could work with the maintainers of their toolchains instead. If everyone that used xcode complained to apple, C++ modules would be done there already. MS likewise would probably put more resources on it. Open source is a little more complicated, but Red Hat and Canonical do have paid products.

[forrestthewoods]

> So they're complaining on the internet about not getting free stuff fast enough.

This is a very weird take.

Visual Studio isn't free for professional use. Xcode is free, but publishing for macOS/iOS is not. Both tools exists to serve platforms owned by the first and third largest companies in the world by market cap. Microsoft and Apple don't spend tens of millions of dollars a year on employee salaries for these tools out of the goodness of their heart.

In any case, the issue isn't with the toolchains. The issue is the C++ committee created a specification that has turned out to be problematic. Your next response may be to join the committee and fix it from the inside! Google tried that and rage quit to create Carbon. Sutter hasn't quit, but I think Carbon and Cppfront getting announced the same summer is not an accident.

[humanrebar]

Yeah, fair.

Very Online engineers complain about slow progress on free stuff for the open source toolchains. And they don't bother to light up ticketing systems on paid products. Microsoft and Apple don't spend as much on these things as you would expext. Because relevant management thinks we don't really care that much. But the common thread is that sitting back and expecting the world to come to you isn't reasonable.

Incidentally, Google is a big place. Some Googlers are still involved in the ISO committees. Certain Googlers, admittedly influential ones, lost patience and started betting their reputations that certain dramatic moves would be a better choice.

I personally don't think ISO is the presidency of C++. C++ culture focuses on language design way too much and engineering (good third party libraries, supporting implementation, empirical evidence, etc.) not nearly enough.