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by userbinator 1378 days ago
It's more likely that RISC-V replaces MIPS than ARM, although it's certainly competing for the latter too.

...and USB flash drives are more likely to be based on 8051s than ARM in volume.

2 comments

RISC-V replacing MIPS is old news. It is a done deal.

The company that owns MIPS, Imagination Technologies, has entirely dropped the MIPS ISA to instead focus in designing RISC-V cores.

Imagination Technologies sold off MIPS in 2017 [1] - while RISC-V might have been a thing back then, it was certainly nowhere as known as it is today, and well before any decision to focus on RISC-V.

Interesting in that Imagination have since announced RISC-V cores [2], but that's unrelated to any of the MIPS tech, and none of the MIPS engineers worked on it as the project started well after the sale.

[1] https://www.imaginationtech.com/news/completion-of-sale-of-m...

[2] https://www.imaginationtech.com/news/imagination-launches-ri...

Missed the sale. Now both MIPS[0] and Imagination are instead doing RISC-V.

0. https://www.theregister.com/2022/05/11/mips_riscv_chips/

I'm pretty sure they're all ARM. Why would they be 8051s? Are there any sufficiently performant 8051 cores?
Here's one with a 250MHz 8051: https://github.com/flowswitch/phison/wiki/PS2303

They don't need anything as powerful as ARM (and thus avoid the licensing fees), and it's a very price-sensitive market, so a fast 8051 + accelerator hardware is enough.

No doubt some of the more expensive ones may be ARM-based, but I think the 8051-based ones far outsell them in volume.

RV32 will turn out to be the 8051 of the present. The 8051 was the Doge Dart of embedded automation. I bought a book in Vietnamese in Vietnam in 2005 on embedded development hardware and software for the 8051. If the diagrams were any indication of the quality, the writing was excellent.
I highly doubt it. As "reduced" as RISC-V is, 8051 is still tiny in comparison.

8051s are used in applications where a 4-bit MCU (yes, they do exist and are still in widespread use) is not quite enough, or they'd have chosen one of those instead.

There's a community doing "fpga golf". That is, reducing the number of LUT required to implement a CPU of a given ISA.

A basic RV32 CPU is down to 500-700 LUT.

    https://github.com/YosysHQ/picorv32
    https://github.com/olofk/serv
A minimal 8051 requires about 300 LUT.

    https://github.com/MicroCoreLabs/Projects/tree/master/MCL51
Not sure how this translates from an FPGA to a transistor count. But RV32 and 8051 should be within a factor of 2-3.
If all you're doing is making a core with a little ROM, a USB interface and a flash interface chances are your design is pad limited - it probably doesn't matter which CPU you use provided it's tinyish

(oh and 8051 are a pain to work with, they've taken far too much of my lifetime, they need the stake thru the heart thing)

within a factor of 2-3

That's still a huge difference, and as I mentioned above, the 8051 is found in applications which are very sensitive to cost. In terms of gate count, the lowest numbers I could find for a RISC-V core are in the 10-20k range, while an 8051 goes down to 2.7k:

https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/design/eda-and-ip/805...