[billpatrianakos]

It's very hard to tell when design or functionality makes or breaks a site. I think we shouldn't be asking that question at all. The whole thing is completely situational.

For Craigslist the function is most important and credit should go to the back end guys. Something like Twitter would give it to the front end guys. I'm leaving scaling out of the equation for now and assuming all sites will perform the same under any load.

A site that is ugly doesn't get used. People always judge a book by its cover especially these days. But if the pretty site doesn't work then you're also screwed. I really hate this debate over who is more important: front or back end. You need both. Period.

I also hate the whole "design is easy" / "no, programming is easy" argument. Neither one is easy. They're different animals. The way you approach the front end and back end are totally different. I'm a generalist but lean toward design. I'm in awe of the back end guys but then some are in awe of me. We have totally different goals in mind when working. The back end guys are concerned with functionality. Security, scaling. The front end is all about beauty, load times, SEO, user experience. At one point in our work we do end up in the middle. That middle is when we're both thinking about the the front end is interacting with the back end and how will we code everything so that A) we can easily connect the two and B) we can efficiently extend the front end to accommodate new back end features and vice versa.

I understand the article wasn't exactly pitting programmers against designers but there's always that subtext and people always start thinking about it. It's a shame that the designers haven't gotten as much credit until recently but at the same time, even as a designer, I must give huge props to the back end guys as I understand the pains they go through.

But can we put the whole front vs. back debate to rest already? You just can't have one without the other. Period.

[krashidov]

"A site that is ugly doesn't get used. People always judge a book by its cover especially these days."

Are you implying Craigslist is not an ugly site? not trying to be sarcastic, genuine question.

[billpatrianakos]

No, I'm speaking for how people who aren't educated in design see things. I personally think its kind of ugly but at the same time I can't say the user experience is bad at all. I can find what I want and filter it pretty easily, the pages load quick as anything, and I generally am able to just get what I want done on Craigslist. That said, I don't use all that often so maybe I'm not the best person to judge the UX of Craigslist. I was just trying to see things the way people like my mother or someone would.

[gerrit]

Design is not just about how it looks (some would call that styling). Design will be able to help determine what to build and how it should work too.

[rhizome]

A site that is ugly doesn't get used.

This, right after talking about Craigslist, a site that enjoys a monthly cycle of "Craigslist sucks, it's so ugly!" ranters who are reliably and continually proven to be clueless.

[imjk]

As mtgentry replied, Craigslist had a huge advantage in being first to market. But now as Craigslist is being supplanted by more niche focused sites, you better believe that good design will be an integral part of those new sites. Refer to http://thegongshow.tumblr.com/post/345941486/the-spawn-of-cr...

[potatolicious]

Not to mention, with apps like Padmapper, Craigslist is quickly becoming a data source with a really lame API (i.e., scraping), rather than a frontend in and of itself.

The existence and popularity of various "Craigslist overlay" sites is plenty of evidence that design and usability is important to users.

[billpatrianakos]

Yeah. I knew someone would call me out for saying the thing about ugly sites right after mentioning Craigslist but I think my point still stands. The only reason I felt I could safely say that was because of your point exactly, imjk. Thanks for saying it better than I could.

[rhizome]

No, your point doesn't stand when it's predicated on imjk's skills at predicting the future and a rhetorical interpretation of Craigslist's life so far.

Both history and reality confirm for us that ugly sites other than CL do just fine.

[mtgentry]

Craigslist won because it was first to market. If anything, their particular case might prove that having deep network effects are more important than good design.

It drives me crazy that Craig won't allow image previews for apartment listings. It's a poor design decision. But since they own that space of mind, it's extremely difficult for someone else to come along and dethrone them with a better product.

[rhizome]

We're not talking about Craigslist success, the OP asserted that an ugly site "doesn't get used."

[goblin89]

I don't think Craigslist is ugly. Not from the point of design, which is not about looks actually. From the point of cosmetic styling—maybe it is.

[billpatrianakos]

Right, same here. But the average person doesn't know how to make a distinction between "this is easy to use and very consistent" and "this is boring and ugly". To most, if it's dull and plain they say it's ugly. I regret mentioning Craigslist noe because we're missing the point. I see now that Criagslist is a special case. It's famous, infamous, and just massively popular. It came out at a time when Yahoo was just as ugly but was still heavily trafficked and people were used to similar designs. If Craigslist were a new player in town then it may not be able to expand beyond San Feansisco. People would visit and immediately be turned off because they're used to all the trappings of Yelp, Thumbtack.com and others. Being cute enough to get attention at first glance goes much farther than I think we realize and if Craigslist were the new guy it wouldn't grab attention at first glance looking how it does.

[JGuo]

Beating a dead horse here, but Craigslist was able to acquire a critical mass of users by being first to market. If you actually examine the overall user experience from a functional UX perspective, Craigslist isn't actually that bad.