[lotsofpulp]

What is the qualify of life at work like for a crane operator? Do their mistakes cost immediate loss of life, possibly even for themself? Do they work evenings, nights, and weekends? Can they work from home, or move to a new country at a whim?

[juve1996]

Exactly this. So many software engineers think it's an easy life in the trades or in the physical work. It pops up on here all the time, self-loathing SWEs come on in and say how terrible their manager is and how oppressive agile is. I'll be a crane operator!, they say. They make 220k! some guy told me that!

Then you tell them the realities of working in a trade. They have no seniority and get night turn. Then you tell them to make that money you need atleast 20+ hours of overtime a week. Oh, and if there's a union, you aren't getting that OT because someone with more seniority is getting it first. Then you tell them they'll be lifting and moving objects and their knees will be in significant pain by the time their 40. They'll be working in un-air conditioned facilities. That alone will eliminate most of them.

The fact is too these outliers always pop up on here. "I know a plumber that makes xxx,xxx!!!" but those are few and far between, many are business owners. The numbers don't lie. The median annual wage is 62,240 for crane operators. https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes537021.htm

[giantg2]

Do they have crushing expectations placed on them and are expected to be connected 24/7?

[abduhl]

I was at a site after a crane collapsed seriously injuring 3 people including one guy who took a cable to the face and, as far as I know, never regained use of his eye. The crane operator survived without injury. He’s probably still making picks despite being a proximate cause for 3 of his friends’ permanent life altering injuries. So in a sense they do have crushing expectations placed on them, except these expectations actually crush someone to death sometimes.

But yeah they’re also on call sometimes.

[giantg2]

I guess I should have worded ir differently. My problem is that responsibilities are not well defined, expectations are vague and fluid, and this basically makes it impossible to know if you're doing well or not. The requirements of the crane job are much more clear and don't have the same oppressive outcomes. And yes, software bugs can still ruin people's lives or kill them too.

[juve1996]

The railroads in the US are close to striking because they only get 1 random day off per month. 353/365 days working.

Yea, I'll take the occasional phone call at 1 AM for a production down over that.

[giantg2]

"Rail employees are provided with significant time off. Generally, train crew employees have over three to four weeks of paid vacation and over 10 personal leave days. Depending on craft and seniority, these numbers can extend to five weeks of vacation in addition to 14 paid holidays and/or paid leave days,” BNSF told CNBC. “The number of Personal Leave Days was increased by 25% this year which makes it easier for employees to take time off.”

[juve1996]

"A crucial issue in the dispute is a points-based attendance policy adopted by some of the largest carriers earlier this year. Those policies penalize workers, up to termination, for going to routine doctor’s visits or attending to family emergencies. Conductors and engineers say that they can be on call for 14 consecutive days without a break and that they do not receive a single sick day, paid or unpaid.

“All we’re asking is folks to be able to go to routine doctor’s visits without pay, but they have refused to accept our proposals,” Dennis Pierce, president of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and Trainmen (BLET) said before the deal was struck. “The average American would not know that we get fired for going to the doctor. This one thing has our members most enraged. We have guys who were punished for taking time off for a heart attack and covid. It’s inhumane.”"

Yes go be that instead of a SWE.

[giantg2]

So how do they get around federal FMLA requirements to fire people over the medical time?

Sign me up! A friend of a friend was a diesel electric mechanic making $85k starting 14 years ago, and no college cost. It took me 8 or more years and a masters to hit that comp as a dev. My company manages some of the rail road 401ks and they are highly compensated. And they're unionized, unlike devs, which I see as a plus.

[juve1996]

FMLA is not a get out of jail free card. You don't get paid, it has strict requirements, and has an approval process.

Ahh yes the famous friend that "makes all this money". Go ahead, sign up. No one is stopping you. "I know a guy who made billions in crypto!" Yea, we all do.

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/installation-maintenance-and-repair/...

People lie like crazy about wages. The numbers don't.

> My company manages some of the rail road 401ks and they are highly compensated. And they're unionized, unlike devs, which I see as a plus.

Sure. Overtime pay is a great. Being away from family all the time, working odd hours, yea, if you can handle it, go for it, it can be rewarding for a certain type of person. But remember - OT goes by seniority in the union.

For me? I'll be paid more, for way less hours, with way more benefits, remote work, etc. But if you don't want that, go ahead. Some people do better in those jobs.