[quantified]

Etymology is "writing about prostitutes" [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pornography]. So you got me there. In the realm of visual depictions, it's just as much art as cave art. Art is a broad classifier. Still lifes are art. Landscapes are art. Audubon's drawings of birds are art. Porn is film, photography and drawing, with a specific subject matter. If Iron Man comics are art, it is too.

"Noble" is nowhere in any working definition of art. Some academic snob might use it with their in-crowd. Damien Hirsch's shark parts is considered art.

[throw_m239339]

> Art is a broad classifier.

"everything I say is art is art", you basically. Well anything I say isn't art isn't art. Especially pornography in general, which sole purpose is sexual gratification of the audience through sexual exploitation, rape via human trafficking.

There is nothing snob is saying that. There something egregious and dehumanizing in saying what you say on the other hand and trying to normalize the very definition of vulgarity.

[claudiawerner]

>which sole purpose is sexual gratification

Not necessarily; plenty of pornography contains serious artistic contents and merit beyond the simple aim of sexual gratification, and they raise interesting questions on their own. This is why some have attempted to make another classifier of 'erotica', which IMO isn't needed.

>through sexual exploitation, rape via human trafficking.

Even if this were true for all porn (and it isn't), that dosen't make it any less art; it may make it 'lesser art' from a moralist perspecitve on the value of art, but this by no means of widely accepted relevance to aesthetic value nor to the property of being 'art'.

>the very definition of vulgarity.

A rude gesture or crass words seems vulgar. A video of a penis being sucked doesn't. "Vulgar" is the sort of word you might hear a shrill, paternal sitcom character use to describe a minor inconvenience or faux pas, and it's just as hilarious when people use it as an argument in real life.

[throw_m239339]

> A rude gesture or crass words seems vulgar. A video of a penis being sucked doesn't. "Vulgar" is the sort of word you might hear a shrill, paternal sitcom character use to describe a minor inconvenience or faux pas, and it's just as hilarious when people use it as an argument in real life.

In the mean time you can spare people gratuitous, graphic descriptions of explicit sex acts, AKA pornography, and keep your depraved fantasies for yourself.

[claudiawerner]

"gratuitous, graphic descriptions of explicit sex acts,"

If you think a blowjob being described in seven words to make a point about vulgarity is 'gratuitous', 'graphic', or 'explicit', your moral compass is severely out of whack.

[quantified]

My fantasies aren't depraved in any way, but they are well-represented in pornography.

[throw_m239339]

> My fantasies aren't depraved in any way, but they are well-represented in pornography.

Your certainly qualify as a vulgar individual given the fact that you feel the need to depict pornography here trying to make a point about god knows what.

[quantified]

Depict? I've held off from the ASCII art here. Though I recall a 1975 Ascii art of a Playboy centerfold (in 1975, no vulva in Playboy at that time). Yes, I was in computing at that time, though as a prepubescent at that time not super into porn.

Point about god knows what? Pretty sure it's been clear all along, art encompasses things we like and things we don't.

[quantified]

Hmmm. Define art for us then? I don't see your views reflected in [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/art] for example.

Only some people define porn as degrading and rape-ful. Galleries are full of paintings of slaughter, is art about snuffing out life? Is all erotica porn? Where do you draw that line?

You sound anti-sex in dismissing sexual stimulation as non-artistic. I could stimulate rage and sadness in you with a painting of two girls stabbing a kitten in the eyes, why is that painting less art than a painting of two women making love to each other? Sex is a good thing, even outside of marriage imho.

[throw_m239339]

> You sound anti-sex in dismissing sexual stimulation as non-artistic.

Pornography isn't sex, it's a gross caricature of sex, usually shot from the perspective of male subjects involving the degradation of women, other men or children, purely for commercial purposes in order to give a false sense of sexual gratification. This isn't art, this is akin to butchery, with human bodies as meat ready to be consumed by incels and all kind of other frustrated males and depraved individual.

The former certainly like claiming pornography has any artistic merit as a way to justify their consumption of depraved content and their lack of any actual sex life.

[quantified]

Art has nothing to do with merit, does it?

Sex with another person is difficult to come by for many, and only comes sporadically for many more. You don't sound like you've been married for 20 years and bound by oath to not have sex with anyone other than someone who's physically lost all libido. I recommend some empathy.

[throw_m239339]

> Sex with another person is difficult to come by for many, and only comes sporadically for many more. You don't sound like you've been married for 20 years and bound by oath to not have sex with anyone other than someone who's physically lost all libido. I recommend some empathy.

You keep on making assumptions about your interlocutor, stick to the matter discussed.

I'd recommend you stop trying making things personal and have some empathy yourself for the victims of the porn trade and sex trafficking instead of trying defend pornography by labeling its critics "anti-sex". Porn is not sex and whoever gets off watching porn isn't having sex at first place. The fact that people have a non-existing libido is the least of my concerns.

[quantified]

You conflate porn with sex trafficking. May as well conflate girl's gymnastics with sex abuse. Because there is certainly sex abuse in girl's gymnastics. Heck, in society as a whole. You have a very warped definition of pornography.

You talk about sexual stimulation for people that can't have sex with other humans as though it's a bad thing. That's just being a prude.